HC Deb 01 May 1968 vol 763 cc1085-7
7. Mr. Tilney

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will give details of his revised plans for the Territorial Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III.

15. Mr. Powell

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what study he is making of means to retain the Territorial Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III, as an effective force.

46. Sir T. Beamish

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what progress has been made in talks between the Council for Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Associations and his Department since the decision on 16th January, 1968, that the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve III was to be disbanded; and if he will now make a full statement to end the present uncertainty.

Mr. Reynolds

I have nothing to add at present to what I told the House on 6th March.—[Vol. 760, c. 466–568.]

Mr. Tilney

But is the Minister aware that a number of volunteers are prepared to go on turning up at drill halls, without the prospect of camp, if only they felt that there was a rôle for a disciplined body of men which could be expanded in case of need in this imperfect world?

Mr. Reynolds

I am aware that a large number of men are perfectly willing to do exactly what the hon. Gentleman has suggested, but at the moment I have nothing to add to what I said earlier to the House.

Mr. Powell

As the Government have allowed the units of T. amp; A.V.R. III to be kept in existence for a few months, will they use this opportunity for a genuine study of the way in which this voluntary service could be permanently used in future?

Mr. Reynolds

I am studying the need for this farce at the present time.

Sir T. Beamish

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Territorials have had to put up with almost three years of Government indecision and humming and hawing and that they are beginning to lose heart? If the Government have had second thoughts about their decision last January to disband the Territorials, why the devil has not Parliament been told?

Mr. Reynolds

If the hon. and gallant Gentleman would agree to substitute "three months" for "three years" we should be in closer agreement, but at the moment I have nothing to add to what I said on 6th March. I am still looking at the position.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

Would my hon. Friend say whether coloured people are welcome to the Territorial organisation?

Mr. Reynolds

I can only say that when visiting Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve units over the past three or four years I have seen a considerable number of coloured people.

Mr. Ramsden

Would the hon. Gentleman accept that there is considerable concern in the House and in the country at the Government's failure to make a statement about their present intentions over the Territorial Army? It was told in January that it was to be disbanded. We know that it received fresh information on 1st April by a letter to commands, as a result of which it is not being disbanded; some camps are continuing. It is essential that the Government should tell the country what their intentions are. Why do they not do that?

Mr. Reynolds

I am fully aware of the concern, with which I have a good deal of sympathy. However, it would be better to wait to see what we want in the Regular Army and what, if anything, it is necessary to retain. I have nothing to add now because I am still looking into these matters.

Mr. Hugh Fraser

Would the hon. Gentleman look into the very urgent question of pay and allowances for the soldiers attending drills in their own time? This is a scandalous affair. People are patriotically going to drills and spending personal money. No grants are being offered by the Government to those who are doing that until a decision is taken. It must be in the interests of the State to see these activities continued. The Government are behaving in a shocking and scandalous way.

Mr. Reynolds

I cannot add to what I said on 6th March. I looked at the matter very closely at the time, and cannot accept at present the making of payments for voluntary attendances.

Sir T. Beamish

In view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of this reply, I give notice that I hope to raise this matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.

8. Mr. Tilney

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many members of units of the Territorial Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III trained for fighting have in the last year transferred to servicing units of the Territorial Army Volunteer Reserve, Category II.

Mr. Reynolds

About 285 members of the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III, transferred to the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve, Category II, during the year ended 31st March, 1968. It would not be possible to find out, without disproportionate effort, the numbers of those who transferred to servicing units.

Mr. Tilney

But is the hon. Gentleman aware that many of them come from teeth arms and that some of them transferred to units like the mobile bath unit? Is this the way to defend the country?

Mr. Reynolds

I assume from what the hon. Gentleman has said that these transfers would have been made on 1st April last year on the reorganisation of the Territorial Army into the T. amp; A.V.R. With its various classes, there were 13,000 completely new recruits to the T. amp; A.V.R. II during the period mentioned in the Question, of which 285 were transferred from T. amp; A.V.R. III.