HC Deb 25 March 1968 vol 761 cc891-3
17. Mr. James Hamilton

asked the Minister of Labour if he will agree to participation by his Department in the inquiry into the £15 minimum wage being carried out by the Confederation of British Industries and the Trades Union Congress; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Gunter

This is a matter which I understand has been raised in discussions which the C.B.I. and T.U.C. have had together but which has not involved any question of participation by my Department.

Mr. Hamilton

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that, with reasonable social security benefits, he is responsible for ensuring proper provision for men in the lower income groups and that his Department should, therefore, participate in discussions on a national minimum wage? Does he further agree that it is also in the interests of the Government to participate in this discussion because of the number of people employed by local authorities?

Mr. Gunter

I would rather see how far the C.B.I. and the T.U.C. get along the road. As my hon. Friend will know, it was only at a meeting on 4th March, just a fortnight ago, that these discussions were started. I would rather wait to see how far they go.

Mr. Shinwell

My right hon. Friend is saying on behalf of the Government that we ought to leave this matter of wage negotiations to the C.B.I. and the trade unions. On the other hand, the Government are ready to impose incomes legislation. Will he make a clear declaration whether in his opinion as Minister of Labour a wage of £15 a week is too high?

Mr. Gunter

I can immediately declare that a wage of £15 a week is not too high. However, my right hon. Friend is most diligent in his attendance at Question Time and must have heard me say more than once that the establishment of a minimum wage of £15 a week, or any other figure, requires the most detailed consultation and the most detailed analysis. The cost of establishing a minimum wage of £15 a week, which the T.U.C. regards as desirable, in present circumstances is something which we cannot possibly afford. Therefore, discussions and consultations must proceed to see how we may best move towards that ideal.

Mr. Edward M. Taylor

Will the right hon. Gentleman carefully consider the views of his hon. Friend the Member for Bothwell (Mr. James Hamilton), remembering that many people get as much money for not working as they would for working?

Mr. Gunter

I take the point. I am not so sure that at some time we shall not have to have a look at what happens inside the Welfare State in this connection.

Dr. Summerskill

As the majority of low wage earners are women and as the Government are taking part in discussions with the T.U.C. and the C.B.I. about equal pay, could they not take part in discussions about a minimum wage of £15 a week?

Mr. Gunter

The two things are different and separate, and yet they are the two major problems at present. The cost of equal pay—interpreting equal pay as equal pay for equal work—is another substantial burden. That is one of the reasons why I would rather wait to see—I hope for not too long—how long the T.U.C. and the C.B.I. will take to reach some considered view on a minimum wage.