HC Deb 14 March 1968 vol 760 cc1863-96

Original Question again proposed.

3.42 a.m.

Mr. Graham Page

On a point of order—

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman is right. I had interrupted him.

Mr. Page

I was on my feet when the Adjournment was moved. I sat down as if I had finished, but I had not completed by speech, and, with the leave of the House, I should like to continue.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member is pushing at an open door. I had called him for that reason.

Mr. Page

I would rather that the door were open for all of us to get out of the House, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry that the Leader of the House persists with this Motion, for which none of us has much heart.

I was pointing out that to provide only three days for Report, recommittal and Third Reading was quite insufficient. An extension to 12 days is absolutely necessary for full consideration. The Government's proposed new paragraph 7 would add to the length of the allotted day any period spent on a Motion under Standing Order No. 9, but it does not allow for Government statements and other business at 3.30, nor provide for what the right hon. Lady called "injury" time because of any Government Motions on Report.

We know what is on the Paper for Committee stage, and have some idea of what will come forward for Report, provided that there are not other Government Motions. There was only today, an unexpected Motion which will change the Committee stage considerably. Any time taken up in that way should be treated as injury time and added to the time for Report stage debates. These are comparatively minor points, but it could be serious if we lost time through Standing Order No. 9 debates or statements at 3.30.

This will all add up and make it more difficult to deal with the Bill efficiently. But the major point is that time should be substantially extended, not from three to five days, with respect to my hon. Friend, but from three to twelve: only thus can the House make up for the time lost in Committee.

3.45 a.m.

Only about 15 more sittings are left in Committee, and it might be necessary when the Bill comes back, to recommit some of the Clauses for proper discussion. Therefore, more than the suggested three days is required. This is a simple, practical matter. We cannot send out from this House legislation which hon. Members have not been able to consider. We cannot do our duty by trusting that the draftsman has translated the Minister's ideas properly, has discovered any ambiguities, and that there are no weaknesses through unexpected or unintended wording.

But this is what will happen if Report stage is reduced to two miserable days. If we had 12 days, with 5½ hours per sitting, then perhaps the House could do justice to the Bill. The right hon. Lady surely is not indifferent to the necessity to see that the Bill is in a proper form. She is gambling that there will not be difficulties and ambiguities and hardships. I beg her to consider the necessity to extend Report stage.

When we discussed the need to extend the time available for the Committee stage, we were then thinking only of the right hon. and hon. Gentlemen on the Committee. There are many other hon. Members who want to discuss the Bill, not just in general, as on Second Reading, but in detail, to see where it needs Amendment and new Clauses and perhaps some Clauses removed. We shall not have that opportunity in the short period which the Government propose to allow for the Report stage. Even with that short period, we are not being allowed to add on "injury" time for Government statements and so on.

The new Paragraph 8 on the Order Paper says that there shall be no private business on any of the allotted days. This will disorganise our procedure. Perhaps the Chairman of Ways and Means will desire to put down a Private Bill which is urgently required by a local authority. There is a timing procedure for these Bills—for example, if there is a Second Reading, it must be fitted in—and unless such a Measure comes before the House at the right time, the unfortunate local authority may have to wait a whole year before being able to reintroduce the Measure. For this reason I say that if the allotted days were spread conveniently over 12 days, perhaps in four weeks, we would still have time to deal with private business and also deal with the Bill. I hope that, if a Vote is taken, hon. Members will support this proposition to enable us to have more time in which to discuss the Bill on Report.

Mr. W. R. van Straubenzee (Wokingham)

I rise—

Sir Harmar Nicholls

On a point of order. Is there no way, perhaps under our procedure, to get the Leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition to go behind the Chair and, between them, knock some sense into what is happening tonight? Only a show of generosity from the Government is required. Instead, they are standing on their dignity. This is not good enough, particularly in view of the economic situation facing the nation. I hope that the two Leaders will get together and sort this out so that the House of Commons may be brought up to the level at which it should stand.

Mr. Speaker

I appreciate the point the hon. Gentleman has made, but it is not a point for the Chair. Mr. van Straubenzee.

Mr. van. Straubenzee

I am sure that my hon. Friend's point of order finds an echo on both sides of the House. Very few hon. Members are not aware of how utterly unrelated this sort of discussion is to the economic situation. I am obliged to speak to the Amendment, which I bitterly resent having to do against the background of the statement we have just had from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. [Interruption.] I do not know why the Minister of State is laughing. He is a member of a team that has brought this nation to this point.

I have sat through a great deal of today's discussion in the hope of catching your eye, Mr. Speaker. I make no complaint about that. However. I had hoped to speak earlier, when we were discussing the Standing Committee. In my modestly lengthy membership of this House, I cannot remember a Bill which has aroused such a strong reaction among my constituents. Up to our last debate I was able to assure all of them that each matter they raised would be carefully discussed in Committee. I can no longer give that assurance. Now my only opportunity of representing their views will be on Report, but I will come to that.

My hon. Friends who are Members of the Standing Committee have done well. I cannot remember a more skilfully led and conducted team than the Opposition team on this Committee. They may remember that several of us took part in another exercise not long ago. I had hoped that the representations made to me could be raised in Committee, but that will not be possible and I will have to raise them on Report; three days, plus the Government Amendment. That is not nearly sufficient time.

My hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mr. Graham Page) explained what the position means in terms of time available. If all the Government undertakings are kept and if no back benchers opposite speak, there will, for all practical purposes, be no opportunity for an hon. Member who has not been a Member of the Committee to bring forward new points which are being constantly raised with him by his constituents. There was a tendency at an earlier stage for it to be regarded as reprehensible that my hon. Friends and I should receive such representations. Indeed, it was suggested to me that all by representations had come from wealthy people. That is not so. Many of them are from ordinary people who are anxious about the Measure and want their views presented.

The representations made to the right hon. Lady are perfectly reasonable. Her conduct in this matter has been reprehensible in the extreme. Plainly, she is absolutely determined to give no point at all to representations. As a result, she loses greatly such stature as she ever held in the eyes of hon. Members. As a result of certain other matters which have been happening tonight, and which will be going on, it is quite possible, even if the Motion is carried in its entirety, she will find herself overtaken by events. Those events will sweep her and all those with her from office and restore a Government which can do something for the nation. For the nation, that cannot happen too soon.

Mr. Edward M. Taylor (Glasgow, Cathcart)

My hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee) rightly said that this is a very important Amendment to a very important guillotine Motion on a very important Bill, but there is an air of unreality because we know that the Bill may not see the light of day and this Government may not see the summer out. [Interruption.] No hon. Member is more responsible for that than the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer).

In these circumstances, it is madness at this time to be discussing an Amendment to a guillotine Motion on a Bill which we know is part of the Socialist nonsensical package which has landed the country in economic disaster. The one great help the Government could give in this situation would be to let foreigners see that we are not mad enough to proceed with the Bill and to say that they are ready to scrap this accursed Bill.

I want to make a correction. By some mistake, certainly not mine, my name has been added to the Amendment in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mr. Graham Page). I have great admiration for him and for what he stands for, but I remember signing the Amendment in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr. Peter Walker).

We should support the Amendment. We should remember the very sound and splendid speech of the hon. Member for Chorley (Mr. Kenyon) at the beginning of these proceedings. He said that, having looked carefully at the Bill before we started discussing it, he had come to the conclusion that under the time-table the Government were thinking of it would be impossible to discuss the Clauses reasonably. That was the considered opinion of a gentleman who is respected in every part of the House. As the Government are forcing through Motions to shorten the Committee proceedings, there is all the more reason to provide adequate time for discussion on Report. If ever there were a case for a longer Report stage, the curtailing of the Committee stage on this Bill has provided it.

In his very interesting, helpful and constructive speech, my hon. Friend the Member for Tavistock (Mr. Michael Heseltine) pointed out that in considering only one quarter of the Bill we have already had 26 assurances which will call for Amendments on Report. He very reasonably suggested that we might have a similar number of assurances in the remaining three-quarters of the Bill. The signs are that the number will be even greater because the Minister said that the main contentious parts of the Bill are still to be considered in Committee.

4.0 a.m.

The Standing Committee has still to discuss the question of the abnormal loads levy. The Minister has given wide general assurances to development districts, to Scotland and to Wales on this point. These will involve many Amendments. Then there is the question of quantity licensing, which will involve many discussions, which will, in their turn, result in more assurances. My hon. Friend's estimate of 20 minutes per discussion on Report could well turn out to be optimistic, because the number of assurances will certainly rise and accelerate when we reach more controversial parts of the Bill.

There are not only the assurances on our Amendments to discuss. We must also consider the Government's changing attitude to the Bill. It is an alarming fact that since the Bill was published the Government have tabled 170 Amendments. They tabled more this morning. It is clear that there are more to come. There is thus all the more reason why between the Committee stage and Report the Government will table a large number of Amendments, not just on the basis of assurances, but also on the basis of new ideas.

I hope that the Minister will take account of the sad and tragic fact that the Committee is at present going through—

Sir Harmar Nicholls

On a point of order. Has the Chair any knowledge that we have the resignation of the Foreign Secretary; and, if so, in the context of what happened earlier in the evening does it not mean that the House ought to give consideration to what is going on?

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Eric Fletcher)

That is not a point of order.

Mr. Taylor

The Foreign Secretary has resigned? This makes it all the more ridiculous that we should go ahead with this foolish discussion. We have heard one of the gravest economic statements for generations. Now we have the news of the resignation of a very senior members of the Cabinet. It is madness to go ahead with this discussion. However, if the Government insist, we must proceed.

Does the Minister of State appreciate that for a considerable part of our Committee proceedings in recent sittings, due to the very unfortunate illness of the Minister of State, Scottish Office, whom we all hope will speedily recover, we have not been able to have any reply or comment upon important Amendments relating to Scottish law. During the Committee's twenty-second sitting I put to the Minister of State a very important question affecting Scottish local authorities.

Mr. Peyton

On a point of order. Even though my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor), who is making an excellent and constructive speech, is standing next door to me, it is very difficult for me to hear him over the hubbub being made by hon. Members opposite. I wonder if you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, would consider inviting hon. Members opposite, who show no interest whatever in these proceedings, to withdraw, because most of us on this side would not miss them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I am sure that the whole House is anxious to hear the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor).

Mr. Taylor

I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton), who is always extremely courteous to hon. Members on both sides and who tries to help those of us on this side who need some protection—apart from the splendid protection which you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, always give. I hope that I have made points and that I shall make points which are of interest to those who are concerned about the Bill. As hon. Members opposite on both sides have had to listen to the serious tidings which we have heard in the course of the early hours of this morning, and to the latest startling news about a senior member of the Cabinet—and who knows what may follow in the next hour or so?—I can well understand that hon. Members opposite might not have an enormous interest in points which I am making about aspects of Scottish law.

Mr. John Biggs-Davison (Chigwell)

Does not my hon. Friend think that this might be reassuring news? It might be very good for sterling.

Mr. Peyton

It would be much better if the Prime Minister went.

Mr. Taylor

These are the sorts of issues which we should be discussing. We should discuss them tomorrow in a full and proper debate after we have had a good night's sleep to reflect on the position. It is intolerable that we should be discussing what I regard as important matters in an atmosphere which renders them insignificant set against major problems facing us at present the consequences of which might be disastrous for the nation. I think it is intolerable, but all we can do is to proceed because tonight's events are extremely serious; the Transport Bill is serious and this Motion is important.

Surely the Leader of the House is sufficiently broad-minded when he has drastically curtailed discussion on the Committee stage, to allow more time on the Report stage. He seems to know very little, but is he aware that for several sittings of the Committee, because of the unfortunate indisposition of the Minister of State, Scottish Office, we have not had a Scottish Minister to deal with important Scottish questions?

Hon. Members

Shame.

Mr. Taylor

It is a shame for the Minister of State.

Mr. Swingler

Disgraceful.

Mr. Taylor

What is disgraceful about that? Is it not more disgraceful that when I raised questions put to me by Scottish local authorities, there has been no answer? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in Columns 1797, 1798, and 1799 of the Report of the Standing Committee proceedings I raised three important questions affecting Scottish local authorities, and that he did not say a word in reply? Why? I do not blame him for not knowing Scottish local government but we were not able to have an answer on vital questions affecting Scottish local government.

Mr. Swingler

I am surprised at the hon. Gentleman. The hon. Member knows that the Minister of State, who is a member of the Standing Committee, has only been absent in the last week, and on account of illness. I think it is extraordinary for the hon. Gentleman to complain that he has not been able to get replies to questions with which my hon. Friend has promised to deal as soon as he is in a fit state to deal with them. The hon. Gentleman has been complaining because the Minister of State is absent through illness.

Mr. Taylor

I was not complaining that he has been absent through illness. I mentioned the Minister of State, one of the most conscientious Ministers we have, although we do not agree with the decisions which he makes which are sometimes foolish. We hope he will be better soon. We need all the fit men we have, to deal with serious problems.

The point I was making was chat because of his unfortunate and inevitable absence—and we know that he would not be absent if he were fit—we have not had answers to these problems of Scottish law. The Minister of State, Ministry of Transport did not try to give answers. I am not complaining about that because I know how complicated are Scottish law and local government. The only opportunity we now have for an answer is on the Report stage, because that Clause, sadly, has passed and our Amendments have been dealt with, but not answered. It is therefore vital that we have adequate time on the Report stage to get these answers.

My hon. Friends have shown their interest in the Transport Bill by their presence here hour after hour. A few of us have the privilege to serve on this Committee to put right this Bill, but our hon. Friends who have just as many interests with special problems, want the same opportunity to say how the Bill affects the jobs of their constituents and the industries and passenger transport in their constituencies. The Minister said that we shall have plenty time, that we must not have the outrage of sitting for 50 hours a week, as we have suggested. The Foreign Secretary—[An HON. MEMBER: "Which one?"] The right hon. Member for Belper (Mr. George Brown). Perhaps he is the noble Lord now. I do not know what has happened to him. The right hon. Member made a speech on 25th January, 1962, in which he spoke about how the Labour Government always tried to avoid guillotine Motions. He said: Not even for the Gas Bill, where we once sat for 50 hours non-stop in Committee, facing continual opposition … did we have an allocation of time Order. Perhaps they were tougher in those days, or perhaps they were more reasonable. He also made a very significant remark which is applicable to the present Government: They have not been willing to listen, they have not been open to reason, even on minor points; indeed, during the last twelve months Ministers have been."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 25th January, 1962; Vol. 652, cc. 429–430.]

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. I cannot see how this is relevant to the Amendment.

Mr. Taylor

I am sorry. I was trying to point out—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. I have pointed out that it is not relevant.

Mr. Taylor

I am sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall leave that point immediately, because you are always very fair and reasonable in these things.

We have the question of the Ministerial assurances, of which we shall have a large number, all having to be discussed. We have a Government which have made it crystal-clear that they change their minds frequently, when they suddenly wake up with a blinding flash of the obvious to the fact that what they propose is bad for the nation.

There is an example on the Order Paper, with all the Amendments to their Motion. This is happening all the time on the Bill, and we must make some estimate of the number of Amendments they will bring forward to take account of new ideas and representations between the Committee and Report stages. We must take account of the position of my hon. Friends and hon. Members opposite who receive representations from their constituents on special constituency problems, when they have not had an opportunity of having them put forward by another hon. Member who happens to be on the Committee.

The Government should also bear in mind that as they have put the savage guillotine and the savage restriction on the Committee proceedings, many matters will not be discussed at all in Committee. It is appalling to consider that the abnormal load charges might not be properly considered properly in Committee. Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that if, because of the guillotine, we do not have time adequately to discuss in Committee charges which constitute a tax that could cripple Scotland we should not make special provision to have them discussed on Report?

Mr. Geoffrey Wilson

If the question of the abnormal loads tax is not discussed and the decision is made to impose it unaltered in an emergency, the china clay works in my constituency might have to be closed down.

Mr. Taylor

That would be a tragedy. Do hon Members opposite not agree that that sort of thing might happen in their constituency?

Mr. Peter Mahon

The hon. Gentleman will not get it discussed by going on like this.

Mr. Taylor

Whenever a telling point has been made in Committee that smashes the Government's argument to smithereens, the hon. Gentleman comes up with a point of order.

Mr. Mahon

This is not a point of order this time. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. It is apparent to all fair-minded hon. Members that this is a positive filibuster. I am a patient man. I say in all humility that I am an experienced man—

Mr. Peter Walker

On a point of order. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman's experience does not go very far in the House. This is not an intervention of a reasonable length.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart gave way to the hon. Member for Preston, South (Mr. Peter Mahon).

4.15 a.m.

Mr. Mahon

If there is any hon. Member in this House who can claim 35 years of local government experience—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I am afraid that the hon. Member cannot make a speech under the guise of an intervention.

Mr. Mahon

I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker for giving me the opportunity to say that. At least I can believe the evidence of my own eyes and ears. If God blessed me with anything at all he gave me good eyesight and good hearing. This exemplifies the conduct during the whole of the Committee stage so far. We are fortunate—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

The hon. Member is exceeding the limits of a reasonable intervention.

Mr. Mahon

I will not take advantage of your generosity.

Mr. Graham Page

Will the hon. Member give way?

Mr. Mahon

I am pleased to give way at any time.

Mr. Taylor

This is what is happening all the time. This is what is holding us up. There has not been one accusation so far from the Government that we have been filibustering. My hon. Friend the Member for Worcester has put forward case after case and figure after figure which absolutely demolish their case.

I have had five years' experience of local government, which is nothing like that which the hon. Member has had. But I have seen what has happened to Glasgow under Socialism and we are now seeing what is happening to Britain under Socialism. It is to avoid this that we have put down the Amendment. It will give us an opportunity on Report to discuss this vital and important question so that the Government can be made aware of what is happening.

We know the value of time and simple explanation. We have been hammering points again and again and in time we have got a concession. We have painstakingly gone over the points and asked the Government whether they appreciate what they were doing to the country, industry, people, jobs and taxes. Then they have made concessions. They realise to their horror what they have been supporting and they change their minds.

You may have heard, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because it was in the evening papers, that the Government have made an amazing about-turn, not on a matter of detail, but a matter of principle. They have made a change about the financial obligations of public corporations. This is a point which we have been pressing. All of a sudden, after 22 sittings, it comes to them in a flash and they put down an Amendment. This has occurred because of the fearless probing of my hon. Friends. Because hon. Members have pressed this point the Government have seen what was happening and they have changed their mind.

On Report we want to have the opportunity to discuss new points and points which have not been adequately discussed. This is all we are asking for. The Government can surely find an extra two days, especially when one thinks of the way they use some of their time and the incredible things which they do which would be better not done and other things which could be left over. Hon. Members would not mind giving up a couple of days from the Summer Recess or the Whitsun recess in the national interest if it meant the difference between proper discussion on Report and not having a proper discussion. It is a fair proposition. We do not suggest 30 days, which would be justified, but ask only for two more, and in return we would do all we could to use words and arguments economically to prove our points. It is a reasonable request.

I make a final plea to the Leader of the House, who has been unreasonable tonight. He can often be flexible and reasonable. Perhaps he is acting under instructions from the right hon. Lady. If he is, he should be more careful. This is a desperately important Bill. At a time of crisis, it involves £1,900 million of public capital. On top of that, there will be extra costs on industry and to the consumer. It will affect everyone in the country. It will affect the ratepayers, some of whom will be hit very hard, and all the taxpayers.

We think this a bad Bill. If the Government cannot accept that view, then at least they should accept that it is important and far reaching. What could be more reasonable than to ask for two more days. The Government will be blamed in history for allowing the Bill to go through at all. It will be worse for them if they force it through without time for proper discussion. This has been a night of shame for the House and democracy. I hope that the right hon. Gentle- man will make some small concession to show that he is a man of sense, of heart and of soul.

Mr. A. P. Costain (Folkestone and Hythe)

I have been in my place 12 hours and this is the first time I have been able to catch your eye, Sir. That, in normal circumstances, is a day and a half. We are discussing whether three days is enough for Report stage. I have not been fortunate enough to be on the Standing Committee but I have my constituency points to put. I have a plastics factory in my constituency which makes medical appliances, many of which are used for heart transplantations. I have had approaches from the managing director, the transport manager and from drivers who say that, if the Bill is unamended, there will be risk of lives being lost because of the proposed restrictions on drivers' time.

I appeal to you, Sir, as guardian of back benchers' rights. If it takes me a day and a half to catch your eye on this Motion, what hope have I on Report? There are other aspects which, if the Bill goes through, will have serious repercussions on the building and civil engineering industry. It will put up the cost of building much more than anyone realises.

It is a scandal that this should happen at present. It is important from the back bench point of view not to debate this matter at this hour but to be assured by the Government they will be moved by the arguments and will give a respecable time on Report so that hon. Members will not have to sit for twelve hours before catching your eye. There is a genuine attempt by back benchers to put the Bill to rights. I appeal to you and the Government to put the matter right.

This is a disgraceful night. We have been fiddling with procedure while the world is inflamed by a financial crisis. Nero would be ashamed of doing a thing like this. This is a night to make proper concessions.

Dame Irene Ward

I have listened to almost the whole of the debate, like my hon. Friends, and I was interested to hear my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) talking about the need for an opportunity to raise important questions relating to Scotland which would arise if our Amendment was carried. What opportunity will there be on Report to deal with the development areas and particularly the Northern Region? It is very important that we should have our say. I am not interested in finding a way out for the Government, but I have had a lot of experience of the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House, having sat on the Procedure Committee. I know all his techniques, his ways of dealing with affairs.

We are requesting only a little time—I would have put forward a much stronger Amendment than has been moved—and since the right hon. Gentleman is sending the Finance Committee upstairs, cannot we use some of the days which will thereby be saved on the Floor of the House? How does the right hon. Gentleman propose to fill up those days? There are lots of things that I would like to raise. He has had no recommendation from the Procedure Committee about sending the Finance Bill upstairs, but I have always regarded him as a revolutionary. I am sure that he is.

All the time he has been manoeuvring, and he really wants to take steps towards destroying Parliamentary democracy. I have always thought that. I must say to the right hon. Lady the Minister that I wonder whether these Amendments tabled by the Government are not part of a plan to prevent all the interests that we on this side represent being adequately discussed. I have always thought that Government Departments tried to prepare a Bill which was reasonably drafted, which did not need numerous Government Amendments. I am not discussing policy, but detail, which is very important to our industry, commercial interests and our economy. I cannot believe that the Minister believes that she is serving the interests of her Department by producing a Bill which has so many weaknesses that these Amendments have to be brought forward by her Department. It seems to me to be a perfectly idiotic way of demonstrating to the world the efficiency, and even the alleged dynamism of the Government. I should have thought that this would have destroyed any thoughts of efficiency and dynamism.

4.30 a.m.

Mr. Speaker

I must ask the hon. Lady to come to the Amendment.

Dame Irene Ward

I am trying to find out why it is thought that, when we have all these extra days available, we shall not be able to allocate more time for discussion on this, one of the largest and most important Bills which any Labour Government has ever put forward. If the days are there, then to me at least it would seem nonsensical that we cannot have some of them. Why is the Government Front Bench so stupid? I have come to the conclusion that right hon. Members on that Front Bench are deliberately stupid in having put down a lot of Amendments themselves, thereby preventing us on this side from discussing all the very wide issues which are so very important.

I agree with the general policy, but having had a fairly long time in Parliamentary life—not in local government—I find it impossible to understand why we cannot discuss the interests which affect our constituencies and our own parts of the country. If the right hon. Lady the Minister is really, genuinely, interested in the North-East Coast, then why did she not have the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on the Standing Committee?

Mr. Speaker

I know that the hon. Lady represents part of the North-East, but the absence or presence of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster does not come within the terms of this Amendment.

Dame Irene Ward

If we have nobody from the North-East on the Standing Committee, then we must fight in the House. I am devoted to my Scottish colleagues, but why should they have representation on the Committee while we have not?

I cannot but help feeling that this is a plot. The Leader of the House is a great plotter; he enjoys his plotting. You, Mr. Speaker, indicated that criticism of the Leader of the House might be brought in—

Mr. Speaker

I assure the hon. Lady that I gave no such indication.

Dame Irene Ward

I am sorry, but somebody gave it. I was saying that the Leader of the House is a great plotter, and I think that he has plotted in this case to prevent issues of nationalisation or non-nationalisation being discussed; or, how industry will be affected by this Bill. So long as the Government leave private enterprise alone, it can get on with its nationalisation.

Mr. Speaker

We are discussing the number of days to be allotted. There is really nothing about nationalisation.

Dame Irene Ward

But I do not expect that I shall be able to get in on that. If I cannot get in on the Report stage, I had better discuss the principle now. I believe in seizing opportunities, and I am talking about the Leader of the House. I am convinced that, as he manipulates the procedure of the House, it does not matter what Committees recommend or what suggestions the Opposition make, the Leader of the House does not want anyone to have a say in any matter except himself—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I must ask the hon. Lady to come to the Amendment.

Dame Irene Ward

Mr. Speaker, I have had a good say and I am grateful to you for permitting me to say it.

It is a little early to ask the right hon. Gentleman what he intends to do with these odd days. When he gave evidence to the Select Committee on Procedure, he calculated that he would

have a lot of days available. If he is really interested in problems which arise—

Mr. James A. Dunn (Liverpool, Kirkdale)

The hon. Lady will recall that the Select Committee on Procedure also recommended that other business could be brought before the House on these days, not least the opportunity to consider Standing Order No. 9 and its revision.

Dame Irene Ward

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. That intervention is out of order.

Dame Irene Ward

I think that a bird in hand is better than two in the bush. The hon. Gentleman is talking about the bush, and not the bird. I have my opportunity now, and I want to place on record that I think that this has been a plot by the Government to prevent great interests which I have the privilege of representing from my part of the world being discussed properly.

I support the Amendment, and I shall have pleasure in going into the Lobby against this ridiculous, plotting Government.

Mr. John Silkin

rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put.

Question put, That the Question be now put:—

The House divided: Ayes 252, Noes 206.

Division No. 96.] AYES [4.38 a.m.
Abse, Leo Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Dempsey, James
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Brown, R. W. (Shoreditch & F'bury) Diamond, Rt. Hn. John
Alldritt, Walter Buchan, Norman Dickens, James
Allen, Scholefield Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) Dobson, Ray
Armstrong, Ernest Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Dunn, James A.
Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James Dunnett, Jack
Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) Cant, R. B. Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth (Exeter)
Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice Carmichael, Neil Dunwoody, Dr. John (F'th & C'b'e)
Bagier, Gordon A. T. Carter-Jones, Lewis Edwards, Robert (Bilston)
Barnes, Michael Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara Edwards, William (Merioneth)
Barnett, Joel Chapman, Donald Ellis, John
Beaney, Alan Coe, Denis English, Michael
Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood Coleman, Donald Ennals, David
Bidwell, Sydney Concannon, J, D. Ensor, David
Binns, John Conlan, Bernard Evans, Albert (Islington, S.W.)
Bishop, E. S. Crawshaw, Richard Evans, Ioan L. (Birm'h'm, Yardley)
Blackburn, F. Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony Faulds, Andrew
Blenkinsop, Arthur Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard Fernyhough, E.
Booth, Albert Cullen, Mrs. Alice Finch, Harold
Boston, Terence Dalyell, Tam Fitch, Alan (Wigan)
Boyden, James Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston)
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) Fletcher, Ted (Darlington)
Bradley, Tom Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Foot, Sir Dingle (Ipswich)
Bray, Dr. Jeremy Davies, Harold (Leek) Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale)
Brooks, Edwin Davies, Ifor (Cower) Ford, Ben
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Forrester, John
Brown, Rt. Hn. George (Belper) Dell, Edmund Fowler, Gerry
Fraser, John (Norwood) Lomas, Kenneth Price, Thomas (Westhoughton)
Freeson, Reginald Luard, Evan Price, William (Rugby)
Gardner, Tony Lyon, Alexander W. (York) Rees, Merlyn
Garrett, W. E. Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) Reynolds, G. W,
Ginsburg, David McBride, Neil Rhodes, Geoffrey
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C. McCann, John Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Gourlay, Harry MacColl, James Roberts, Gwilym (Bedfordshire, S.)
Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth) MacDermot, Niall Robinson, Rt. Hn. Kenneth (St. P 'c' as)
Gregory, Arnold Macdonald, A. H. Robinson, W. O. J. (Walth'stow, E.)
Grey, Charles (Durham) McKay, Mrs. Margaret Rodgers, William (Stockton)
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) Roebuck, Roy
Griffiths, Will (Exchange) Mackintosh, John P. Rogers, George (Kensington, N.)
Gunter, Rt. Hn. R. J. Maclennan, Robert Ross, Rt. Hn. William
Hamilton, James (Bothwell) McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C.) Rowlands, E. (Cardiff, N.)
Hamling, William McNamara, J. Kevin Ryan, John
Hannan, William MacPherson, Malcolm Shaw, Arnold (Ilford, S.)
Harper, Joseph Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) Sheldon, Robert
Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) Mahon, Simon (Bootle) Short, Rt. Hn. Edward (N 'c'tle-u-Tyne)
Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hampton, N. E.)
Haseldine, Norman Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.) Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford)
Hattersley, Roy Marks, Kenneth Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich)
Hazell, Bert Marsh, Rt. Hn. Richard Silverman, Julius (Aston)
Heffer, Eric S. Mayhew, Christopher Slater, Joseph
Henig, Stanley Mendelson, J. J. Snow, Julian
Hobden, Dennis (Brighton, K'town) Millan, Bruce Spriggs, Leslie
Hooley, Frank Miller, Dr. M. S. Stewart, Rt. Hn. Michael
Horner, John Milne, Edward (Blyth) Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R.
Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test) Swingler, Stephen
Howarth, Harry (Wellingborough) Molloy, William Taverne, Dick
Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.) Moonman, Eric Thomas, George (Cardiff, W.)
Howell, Denis (Small Heath) Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) Thomson, Rt. Hn. George
Howie, W. Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) Thornton, Ernest
Hoy, James Morris, John (Aberavon) Tinn, James
Huckfield, Leslie Moyle, Roland Tomney, Frank
Hughes, Emrys (Ayrsh're, S.) Murray, Albert Urwin, T. W.
Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Newens, Stan Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley)
Hughes, Roy (Newport) Norwood, Christopher Walden, Brian (All Saints)
Irvine, Sir Arthur Oakes, Gordon Walker, Harold (Doncaster)
Jackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh) O'Malley, Brian Wallace, George
Jackson, Peter M. (High Peak) Oram, Albert E. Watkins, David (Consett)
Janner, Sir Harnett Orbach, Maurice Wellbeloved, James
Jeger, Mrs. Lena (H'b'n & St. P 'cras, S.) Orme, Stanley Whitaker, Ben
Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) Oswald, Thomas Whitiock, William
Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Owen, Will (Morpeth) Wilkins, W. A.
Jones, Dan (Burnley) Padley, Walter Willey, Rt. Hn. Frederick
Jones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn (W.Ham, S.) Page, Derek (King's Lynn) Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)
Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, West) Palmer, Arthur Williams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch)
Judd, Frank Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles Williams, Clifford (Abertillery)
Kelley, Richard Park, Trevor Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin)
Kerr, Russell (Feltham) Parker, John (Dagenham) Williams, W. T. (Warrington)
Leadbitter, Ted Parkyn, Brian (Bedford) Willis, Rt. Hn. George
Ledger, Ron Pavitt, Laurence Winnick, David
Lee, John (Reading) Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred Woof, Robert
Lestor, Miss Joan Pentland, Norman Wyatt, Woodrow
Lever, Harold (Cheetham) Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) Yates, Victor
Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.) Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Prentice, Rt. Hn. R. E. Mr. Charles Morris and
Lipton, Marcus Price, Christopher (Perry Barr) Mr. Eric G. Varley.
NOES
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward Crosthwaite-Eyre, Sir Oliver
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) Braine, Bernard Crouch, David
Astor, John Brewis, John Crowder, F. P.
Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) Brinton, Sir Tatton Dalkeith, Earl of
Awdry, Daniel Bromley-Davenport.Lt.-col. Sir Walter Dance, James
Balniel, Lord Bryan, Paul Davidson, James (Aberdeenshire, W.)
Batsford, Brian Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N & M) Dean, Paul (Somerset, N.)
Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton Buck, Antony (Colchester) Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford)
Bill, Ronald Bullus, Sir Eric Digby, Simon Wingfield
Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) Burden, F. A. Dodds-Parker, Douglas
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm) Campbell, Gordon Doughty, Charles
Berry, Hn. Anthony Carlisle, Mark Drayson, G. B.
Bessell, Peter Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward
Biffen, John Cary, Sir Robert Eden, Sir John
Biggs-Davison, John Chichester-Clark, R. Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton)
Birch, Rt. Hn. Nigel Clark, Henry Elliott, R. W. (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, N.)
Black, Sir Cyril Cooke, Robert Emery, Peter
Blaker, Peter Cooper-Key, Sir Neill Errington, Sir Eric
Boardman, Tom Cordle, John Eyre, Reginald
Body, Richard Corfield, F. V. Farr, John
Bossom, Sir Clive Costain, A. P. Fisher, Nigel
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John Craddock, Sir Beresford (Spelthorne) Fletcher-Cooke, Charles
Foster, Sir John Lane, David Prior, J. M. L.
Fraser, Rt. Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone) Langford-Holt, Sir John Pym, Francis
Gibson-Watt, David Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry Quennell, Miss J. M.
Giles, Rear-Adm. Morgan Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James
Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) Lloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langstone) Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter
Glyn, Sir Richard Longden, Gilbert Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David
Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B. Loveys, W. H. Ridley, Hn. Nicholas
Goodhart, Philip Lubbock, Eric Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks)
Goodhew, Victor MacArthur, Ian Russell, Sir Ronald
Gower, Raymond Mackenzie, Alasdair (Ross & Crom'ty) Scott, Nicholas
Grant, Anthony Maclean, Sir Fitzroy Scott-Hopkins, James
Gresham Cooke, R. McMaster, Stanley Sharples, Richard
Grieve, Percy Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby)
Gurden, Harold Maddan, Martin Sinclair, Sir George
Hall-Davis, A. G. F. Marten, Neil Smith, John
Hamilton, Lord (Fermanagh) Maude, Angus Stainton, Keith
Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) Mawby, Ray Steel, David (Roxburgh)
Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.W.) Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. (Ripon)
Harrison, Brian (Maldon) Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. Tapsell, Peter
Harrison, Col, Sir Harwood (Eye) Mills, Peter (Torrington) Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Harvie Anderson, Miss Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.) Taylor, Edward M.(G'gow, Cathcart)
Hastings, Stephen Miscampbell, Norman Taylor, Frank (Moss Side)
Hawkins, Paul Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) Temple, John M.
Heseltine, Michael Monro, Hector Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret
Higgins, Terence L. Montgomery, Fergus Tilney, John
Hiley, Joseph More, Jasper van Straubenzee, W. R.
Hill, J. E. B. Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh) Vaughan-Morgan, Rt. Hn. Sir John
Holland, Philip Morrison, Charles (Devizes) Vickers, Dame Joan
Hooson, Emlyn Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles Walker, Peter (Worcester)
Hordern, Peter Munro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Hornby, Richard Neave, Airey Wall, Patrick
Howell, David (Guildford) Nicholls, Sir Harmar Ward, Dame Irene
Hunt, John Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael Weatherill, Bernard
Hutchison, Michael Clark Nott, John Webster, David
Iremonger, T. L. Onslow, Cranley Wells, John (Maidstone)
Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater)
Jopling, Michael Page, Graham (Crosby) Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Joseph, Rt. Hn. Sir Keith Page, John (Harrow, W.) Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Kaberry, Sir Donald Pearson, Sir Frank (Clitheroe) Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Kerby, Capt. Henry Peel, John Woodnutt, Mark
Kershaw, Anthony Percival, Ian Worsley, Marcus
Kimball, Marcus Peyton, John Wright, Esmond
King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) Pike, Miss Mervyn Younger, Hn. George
Kirk, Peter Pink, R. Bonner
Knight, Mrs. Jill Pounder, Rafton TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Lambton, Viscount Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch Mr. Anthony Royle and
Lancaster, Col. C. G. Price, David (Eastleigh) Mr. Timothy Kitson.

Question put accordingly, That the Amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 206, Noes 253.

Division No. 97.] AYES [4.48 a.m.
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N & M) du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) Buck, Antony (Colchester) Eden, Sir John
Astor, John Bullus, Sir Eric Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton)
Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) Burden, F. A. Elliott, R. W. (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, N.)
Awdry, Daniel Campbell, Gordon Emery, Peter
Balniel, Lord Carlisle, Mark Errington, Sir Eric
Batsford, Brian Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert Eyre, Reginald
Beamish, Col. Sir Tutton Cary, Sir Robert Farr, John
Bell, Ronald Chichester-Clark, R. Fisher, Nigel
Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) Clark, Henry Fletcher-Cooke, Charles
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm) Cooke, Robert Foster, Sir John
Berry, Hn. Anthony Cooper-Key, Sir Neill Fraser, Rt. Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone)
Bessell, Peter Cordle, John Gibson-Watt, David
Biffen, John Corfield, F. V. Giles, Rear-Adm. Morgan
Biggs-Davison, John Costain, A. P. Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.)
Birch, Rt. Hn. Nigel Craddock, Sir Beresford (Spelthorne) Glyn, Sir Richard
Black, Sir Cyril Crosthwaite-Eyre, Sir Oliver Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B.
Blaker, Peter Crouch, David Goodhart, Philip
Boardman, Tom Crowder, F. P. Goodhew, Victor
Body, Richard Dalkeith, Earl of Gower, Raymond
Bossom, Sir Clive Dance, James Grant, Anthony
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John Davidson, James(Aberdeenshire, W.) Gresham Cooke, R,
Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward Dean, Paul (Somerset, N.) Grieve, Percy
Braine, Bernard Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford) Gurden, Harold
Brewis, John Digby, Simon Wingfield Hall-Davis, A. G. F.
Brinton, Sir Tatton Dodds-Parker, Douglas Hamilton, Lord (Fermanagh)
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-col. Sir Walter Doughty, Charles Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury)
Bryan, Paul Drayson, G. B. Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.W.)
Harrison, Brian (Maldon) Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) Ridley, Hn. Nicholas
Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) Maddan, Martin Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks)
Harvie Anderson, Miss Marten, Neil Russell, Sir Ronald
Hastings, Stephen Maude, Angus Scott, Nicholas
Hawkins, Paul Mawby, Ray Scott-Hopkins, James
Heseltine, Michael Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Sharples, Richard
Higgins, Terence L. Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby)
Hiley, Joseph Mills, Peter (Torrington) Sinclair, Sir George
Hill, J. E. B. Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.) Smith, John
Holland, Philip MisCampbell, Norman Stainton, Keith
Hooson, Emlyn Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) Steel, David (Roxburgh)
Hordern, Peter Monro, Hector Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. (Ripon)
Hornby, Richard Montgomery, Fergus Tapsell, Peter
Howell, David (Guildford) More, Jasper Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Hunt, John Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh) Taylor, Edward M. (G'gow, Cathcart)
Hutchison, Michael Clark Morrison, Charles (Devizes) Taylor, Frank (Moss Side)
Iremonger, T. L. Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles Temple, John M.
Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Munro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret
Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) Neave, Airey Tilney, John
Jopling, Michael Nicholls, Sir Harmar van Straubenzee, W. R.
Joseph, Rt. Hn. Sir Keith Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael Vaughan-Morgan, Rt. Hn. Sir John
Kaberry, Sir Donald Nott, John Vickers, Dame Joan
Kerby, Capt. Henry Onslow, Cranley Walker, Peter (Worcester)
Kershaw, Anthony Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Kimball, Marcus Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian Wall, Patrick
King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) Page, Graham (Crosby) Ward, Dame Irene
Kirk, Peter Page, John (Harrow, W.) Weatherill, Bernard
Knight, Mrs. Jill Pearson, Sir Frank (Clitheroe) Webster, David
Lambton, Viscount Peel, John Wells, John (Maidstone)
Lancaster, Col. C. G. Percival, Ian Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
Lane, David Peyton, John Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater)
Langford-Holt, Sir John Pike, Miss Mervyn Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry Pink, R. Bonner Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Pounder, Rafton Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Lloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langstone) Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch Woodnutt, Mark
Longden, Gilbert Price, David (Eastleigh) Worsley, Marcus
Loveys, W. H. Prior, J. M. L. Wright, Esmond
Lubbock, Eric Pym, Francis Younger, Hn. George
MacArthur, Ian Quennell, Miss J, M.
Mackenzie, Alasdair(Ross&Crom'ty) Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Maclean, Sir Fitzroy Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter Mr. Anthony Royle and
McMaster, Stanley Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David Mr. Timothy Kitson.
NOES
Abse, Leo Coleman, Donald Ford, Ben
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Concannon, J. D. Forrester, John
Alldritt, Walter Conlan, Bernard Fowler, Gerry
Allen, Scholefield Crawshaw, Richard Fraser, John (Norwood)
Armstrong, Ernest Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony Freeson, Reginald
Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard Gardner, Tony
Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) Cullen, Mrs. Alice Garrett, W. E.
Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice Dalyell, Tam Ginsburg, David
Bagier, Gordon A. T. Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C.
Barnes, Michael Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) Gourlay, Harry
Barnett, Joel Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth)
Beaney, Alan Davies, Harold (Leek) Gregory, Arnold
Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood Davies, Ifor (Gower) Grey, Charles (Durham)
Bidwell, Sydney de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Griffiths, David (Rother Valley)
Binns, John Dell, Edmund Griffiths, Will (Exchange)
Bishop, E. S. Dempsey, James Gunter, Rt. Hn. R. J.
Blackburn, F. Diamond, Rt. Hn. John Hamilton, James (Bothwell)
Blenkinsop, Arthur Dickens, James Hamling, William
Booth, Albert Dobson, Ray Hannan, William
Boston, Terence Dunn, James A. Harper, Joseph
Boyden, James Dunnett, Jack Harrison, Walter (Wakefield)
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth (Exeter) Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith
Bradley, Tom Dunwoody, Dr. John (F'th & C'b'e) Haseldine, Norman
Bray, Dr. Jeremy Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Hattersley, Roy
Brooks, Edwin Edwards, William (Merioneth) Hazell, Bert
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Ellis, John Heffer, Eric S.
Brown, Rt. Hn. George (Belper) English, Michael Henig, Stanley
Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Ennals, David Hobden, Dennis (Brighton, K'town)
Brown, R. W. (Shoreditch & F'bury) Ensor, David Hooley, Frank
Buchan, Norman Evans, Albert (Islington, S.W.) Horner, John
Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) Evans, Ioan L. (Birm'h'm, Yardley) Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Ewing, Mrs. Winifred Howarth, Harry (Wellingborough)
Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James Faulds, Andrew Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.)
Cant, R. B. Fernyhough, E. Howell, Denis (Small Heath)
Carmichael, Neil Finch, Harold Howie, W.
Carter-Jones, Lewis Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) Hoy, James
Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) Huckfield, Leslie
Chapman, Donald Foot, Rt. Hn. Sir Dingle (Ipswich) Hughes, Emrys (Ayrshire, S.)
Coe, Denis Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.)
Hughes, Roy (Newport) Miller, Dr. M. S. Rowlands, E. (Cardiff, N.)
Hynd, John Milne, Edward (Blyth) Ryan, John
Irvine, Sir Arthur Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test) Shaw, Arnold (Ilford, S.)
Jackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh) Molloy, William Sheldon, Robert
Jackson, Peter M. (High Peak) Moonman, Eric Short, Rt.Hn. Edward (N'c'tle-u-Tyne)
Janner, Sir Barnett Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hampton, N. E.)
Jeger, Mrs. Lena (H'b'n & St. P'cras, S.) Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford)
Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich)
Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Morris, John (Aberavon) Silverman, Julius (Aston)
Jones, Dan (Burnley) Moyle, Roland Slater, Joseph
Jones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn (W.Ham, S.) Murray, Albert Snow, Julian
Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, West) Newens, Stan Spriggs, Leslie
Judd, Frank Norwood, Christopher Stewart, Rt. Hn. Michael
Kelley, Richard Oakes, Gordon Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R.
Kerr, Russell (Feltham) O'Malley, Brian Swingler, Stephen
Leadbitter, Ted Oram, Albert E. Taverne, Dick
Ledger, Ron Orbach, Maurice Thomas, George (Cardiff, W.)
Lee, John (Reading) Orme, Stanley Thomson, Rt. Hn. George
Lestor, Miss Joan Oswald, Thomas Thornton, Ernest
Lever, Harold (Cheetham) Owen, Will (Morpeth) Tinn, James
Lewis. Arthur (W. Ham, N.) Padley, Walter Tomney, Frank
Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Page, Derek (King's Lynn) Urwin, T. W.
Lipton, Marcus Palmer, Arthur Varley, Eric G.
Lomas, Kenneth Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley)
Luard, Evan Park, Trevor Walden, Brian (All Saints)
Lyon, Alexander W. (York) Parker, John (Dagenham) Walker, Harold (Doncaster)
Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) Parkyn, Brian (Bedford) Wallace, George
McCann, John Pavitt, Laurence Watkins, David (Consett)
MacColl, James Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred Wellbeloved, James
MacDermot, Niall Pentland, Norman Whitaker, Ben
Macdonald, A. H. Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) Whitlock, William
McKay, Mrs. Margaret Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.) Wilkins, W. A.
Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) Prentice, Rt. Hn. R. E. Willey, Rt. Hn. Frederick
Mackintosh, John P. Price, Christopher (Perry Barr) Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)
Maclennan, Robert Price, Thomas (Westhoughton) Williams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch)
McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) Price, William (Rugby) Williams, Clifford (Abertillery)
McNamara, J. Kevin Rees, Merlyn Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin)
Macpherson, Malcolm Reynolds, G. W. Williams, W. T. (Warrington)
Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) Rhodes, Geoffrey Willis, Rt. Hn. George
Mahon, Simon (Bootle) Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon) Winnick, David
Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Roberts, Gwilym (Bedfordshire, S.) Woof, Robert
Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Hudderstield, E.) Robinson, Rt. Hn. Kenneth (St. P 'c' as) Wyatt, Woodrow
Marks, Kenneth Robinson, W. O. J. (Walth'stow, E.) Yates, Victor
Marsh, Rt. Hn. Richard Rodgers, William (Stockton)
Mayhew, Christopher Roebuck, Roy TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Mendelson, J. J. Rogers, George (Kensington, N.) Mr Alan Fitch and
Millan, Bruce Ross, Rt. Hn. William Mr. Neil McBride.

Amendment made: In line 8, leave out 'at' and insert 'five and a half hours after' instead thereof.

Mr. Peter Walker

I beg to move, in line 28, to leave out from beginning to second 'the' in line 29 and insert: 'if a Motion shall be made in the Standing Committee relating to the sitting of the Committee'. A Standing Committee is basically the master of its own house, but after an allocation of time Order, the Business Sub-Committee determines the number of sittings and the programme of Clauses. But the Committee still controls its own proceedings. As Amendments and new Clauses are put down, the Committee may have to alter the proceedings. Paragraph 3 precludes anyone other than a Government Member from moving a sittings Motion, so no matter how Government Amendments put the programme out of gear the Opposition could not use this opportunity to put it right. This is not a fantasy in view of the mess which the Government have made of the Resolution and of the Committee's work by putting down only today a Motion which completely alters the Bill's character. And before 15th May the Government may mess up the programme again.

It is monstrous that the Opposition should be denied this right, and our Amendment would provide for a short debate—almost a Ten-Minute Rule debate—which would not be restricted to a Government Member but could be initiated by an Opposition Member.

5.0 a.m.

Mr. Crossman

I have no strong views on this, but I doubt whether it would accord with the orthodox timetable procedure which we have followed as it was used by my predecessors. The Amendment would mean that some time would be deducted from the limited amount available for this purpose, and some of the time which could be used to discuss the substance of the Bill would be siphoned off into a procedural debate. If the Opposition feel strongly about this, I would not stand in the way of the House. However, I would advise the House that my predecessors were wise in thinking that the limited time available is best spent on the Bill, and I would therefore advise the House not to accept the Amendment.

Mr. Page

We do think that it is important that the Opposition should be able to move a Motion of this sort. After all, this is an extraordinary procedure applied to an extraordinary Bill. The right hon. Gentleman said that he would accept it if we felt keenly, and we certainly think that it is important.

Mr. Crossman

In that case, I am prepared to accept the Amendment, although I warn the Members of the Committee that it may not work out to their advantage. However, there is nothing like experiment, particularly when an orthodox, conservative procedure s reformed in a radical way so early in the morning.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Peyton

I beg to move, in line 34, to lave out from beginning to first "the" in line 35.

In moving this Amendment, I merely wish to ask the Leader of the House why the Committee should have this right removed from it. The Committee has already been subjected to insult and inconvenience. I do not see why, if it wishes, the Committee should not be able to rearrange the order in which it discusses various Clauses.

Mr. Crossman

In contrast with the previous Amendment, there is a reason which weighs against accepting this proposal. It would take away a certain amount of power from the Business Sub-Committee which, by convention, takes full account of the views of the Opposition. The Sub-Committee works out the business and it has been understood that decisions in this sphere should rest with that Committee. As drafted, the provision allows that to rest with the Sub-Committee, whereas the Amendment would ensure that while the Sub-Committee was free to make such proposals, other people could make them as well. I have no strong views on the subject—although they are somewhat stronger than when we discussed the previous Amendment—but I suggest that, as we have the Business Sub-Committee, which is recognised to be strictly impartial, it would be a pity not to leave it to do its job.

Mr. Peyton

By the leave of the House, I would merely reply that, on the ground that I prefer, on second thoughts, to repose my confidence in the Business Sub-Committee rather than with the right hon. Lady the Minister, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Mr. Crossman

And I beg to ask leave to tell the hon. Gentleman that I will tell my right hon. Friend what he said.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment made: In line 46, leave out paragraph 7 and insert:

7.—(1) On an allotted day, paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 2 (Exempted business) shall apply to the proceedings on the Bill for a period of five and a half hours after Ten o'clock, whether or not that period is interrupted by proceedings on a Motion for the adjournment of the House and by a suspension of the sitting under the Order [12th December] (Sittings of the House).

(2) Any period during which proceedings on the Bill may be proceeded with after Ten o'clock under paragraph (7) of Standing Order No. 9 (Adjournment on specified and important matter that should have urgent consideration) shall be in addition to the said period of five and a half hours (or in addition to any longer period for which, on a Motion made under paragraph (2)(b) of the said Standing Order No. 2 that Order applies).

(3) If a Motion under the said Standing Order No. 9 stands over until Seven o'clock on an allotted day, the bringing to a conclusion of any proceedings on the Bill which, under this Order or a Resolution of the Business Committee, are to be brought to a conclusion at that day's sitting at any time after Seven o'clock shall be deferred for a period equal to the duration of the proceedings on that Motion.

(4) If on a Motion made after Ten o'clock on an allotted day under the said Order [12th December] Mr. Speaker suspends that day's sitting till Ten o'clock in the morning, the bringing to a conclusion of any proceedings on the Bill which, under this Order or a Resolution of the Business Committee, are to be brought to a conclusion at that day's sitting shall be deferred for a period equal to the duration of the suspension of the sitting.

(5) Any deferment under sub-paragraph (4) of this paragraph shall be in addition to any deferment under sub-paragraph (3) thereof.—[Mr. Grossman.]

Further Amendments made: In line 65, leave out paragraph 8 and insert: 8. No opposed Private Business shall be taken on an allotted day.—[Mr. Grossman.]

In line 92, at end insert: 'or under the Order [12th December] (Sittings of the House)'.—[Mr. Grossman.]

Amendment proposed: In line 104, leave out 'two' and insert 'three'.[Mr. Peter Walker.]

Mr. Edward M. Taylor

This is an important Amendment which deals with paragraph 10 of the Motion. This is the fifth Amendment, which is probably appropriate because the fifth amendment in another context dealt with infamous crimes and the need for people not to be compelled to be witnesses against themselves. Having sat here for so many hours, hon. Members may be alarmed to hear that paragraph 10 deals with … varying or supplementing the provisions of this Order … which is alarming in view of the length of time we have spent discussing the matter. Under normal circumstances and under a normal Government with a well-managed programme, this would be hypothetical, but considering the chaos and confusion of the Government's business arrangements, this is a serious matter.

The Amendment could be applied in three circumstances. The first is if the Government wished to amend their own Motion. This normally would not arise, but we have to bear in mind that there are seven Amendments proposed to the Motion. The second way in which this could arise would be if new circumstances were created by the submission of a large number of new Clauses which would involve a rearrangement of the time-table. The third would be if there were a disagreement on the Business Sub-Committee which resulted in it not being able to complete its task.

The simple point about the Amendment is that if such a change were proposed the House should have three rather than two hours to debate it. Two hours would not be adequate for such an important matter. If the Government were making a fundamental change in the arrangements, hon. Members should have an opportunity to debate it fully. Bearing in mind that we have been discussing

these matters for a long time tonight, perhaps the Leader of the House could assist by making a small concession which would involve, only in certain hypothetical circumstances, an additional hour of Parliamentary time. We feel strongly on this. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be able to help us.

Mr. Crossman

If it were a question of giving an extra hour of Parliamentary time it would be a concession, but it would not be an extra hour; it would be an hour out of the total time available for the business.

I am a great imitator. We took this provision out of Conservative practice. In the fifteen Conservative guillotine measures there has been a regular insertion of this provision. I cannot advise the House to accept the Amendment. Our predecessors knew their job and arranged the time-table sensibly. It would not be wise after the experience of the last twelve hours to spend too long on procedural matters and too little on the real business of the Bill.

Mr. Taylor

I speak again by leave of the House. At the end of our discussion we see how ruthless the time-table is and how limited will be the number of hours for discussion. Even on a matter like this we have to limit the time to discuss important matters. However, as we have had a short discussion and the Leader of the House made a helpful concession earlier, we shall not pursue this Amendment. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendments made: In line 104, leave out '7(2)' and insert '7(3)'.

In line 107, at end insert 'not being an allotted day'.

In line 108, leave out from o'clock' to 'the' in line 109.—[Mr. Crossman.]

Main Question, as amended, put:—

The House divided: Ayes 250, Noes 203.

Division No. 98.] AYES [5.15 a.m.
Abse, Leo Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice Binns, John
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Bagier, Gordon A. T. Bishop, E. S.
Alldritt, Walter Barnes, Michael Blackburn, F.
Allen, Scholefield Barnett, Joel Blenkinsop, Arthur
Armstrong, Ernest Beaney, Alan Booth, Albert
Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood Boston, Terence
Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) Bidwell, Sydney Boyden, James
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Hattersley, Roy Orme, Stanley
Bradley, Tom Hazell, Bert Oswald, Thomas
Bray, Dr. Jeremy Heffer, Eric S. Owen, Will (Morpeth)
Brooks, Edwin Henig, Stanley Padley, Walter
Broughton Dr. A. D. D. Hobden, Dennis (Brighton, K'town) Page, Derek (King's Lynn)
Brown, Rt. Hn. George (Belper) Hooley, Frank Palmer, Arthur
Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Horner, John Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles
Brown, R. W. (Shoreditch & F'bury) Howarth, Harry (Wellingborough) Park, Trevor
Buchan, Norman Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.) Parker, John (Dagenham)
Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) Howell, Denis (Small Heath) Parkyn, Brian (Bedford)
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Howie, W. Pavitt, Laurence
Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James Hoy, James Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred
Cant, R. B. Huckfield, Leslie Pentland, Norman
Carmichael, Neil Hughes, Emrys (Ayrshire, S.) Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.)
Carter-Jones, Lewis Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.)
Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara Hughes, Roy (Newport) Prentice, Rt. Hn. R. E.
Chapman, Donald Hynd, John Price, Christopher (Perry Barr)
Coe, Denis Irvine, Sir Arthur (L'pool, Edge Hill) Price, J. T. (Westhoughton)
Coleman, Donald Jackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh) Price, William (Rugby)
Concannon, J. D. Jackson, Peter M. (High Peak) Rees, Merlyn
Conlan, Bernard Janner, Sir Barnett Reynolds, G. W.
Crawshaw, Richard Jeger, Mrs. Lena (H'b'n & St. P 'cras, S.) Rhodes, Geoffrey
Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Roberts, Gwilym (Bedfordshire, S.)
Cullen, Mrs. Alice Jones, Dan (Burnley) Robinson, Rt. Hn. Kenneth (St. P 'c' as)
Dalyell, Tam Jones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn (W. Ham, S.) Robinson, W. O. J. (Walth'stow, E.)
Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, West) Rodgers, William (Stockton)
Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) Judd, Frank Roebuck, Roy
Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Kelley, Richard Rogers, George (Kensington, N.)
Davies, Harold (Leek) Kerr, Russell (Feltham) Ross, Rt. Hn. William (Kilmarnock)
Davies, Ifor (Gower) Leadbitter, Ted Rowlands, E. (Cardiff, N.)
de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Ledger, Ron Ryan, John
Dell, Edmund Lee, John (Reading) Shaw, Arnold (Ilford, S.)
Dempsey, James Lester, Miss Joan Sheldon, Robert
Dickens, James Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.) Short, Rt. Hn. Edward (N'ctle-u-Tyne)
Dobson, Ray Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hampton, N. E.)
Dunn, James A. Lipton, Marcus Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford)
Dunnett, Jack Lomas, Kenneth Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich)
Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth (Exeter) Luard, Evan Silverman, Julius (Birm'ham, Aston)
Dunwoody, Dr. John (F'th & C'b'e) Lyon, Alexander W. (York) Slater, Joseph
Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) Snow, Julian
Edwards, William (Merioneth) McBride, Neil Spriggs, Leslie
Ellis, John McCann, John Stewart, Rt. Hn. Michael
English, Michael MacColl, James Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R.
Ennals, David MacDermot, Niall Swingler, Stephen
Ensor, David Macdonald, A. H. Taverne, Dick
Evans, Albert (Islington, S.W.) McKay, Mrs. Margaret Thomas, George (Cardiff, W.)
Faulds, Andrew Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) Thomson, Rt. Hn. George
Fernyhough, E. Mackintosh, John P. Thornton, Ernest
Finch, Harold Maclennan, Robert Tinn, James
Fitch, Alan (Wigan) McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) Tomney, Frank
Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) McNamara, J. Kevin Urwin, T. W.
Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) MacPherson, Malcolm Varley, Eric G.
Foot, Rt. Hn. Sir Dingle (Ipswich) Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley)
Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) Mahon, Simon (Bootle) Walden, Brian (B'ham, All Saints)
Ford, Ben Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Walker. Harold (Doncaster)
Forrester, John Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.) Wallace, George
Fowler, Gerry Marks, Kenneth Watkins, David (Consett)
Fraser, John (Norwood) Marsh, Rt. Hn. Richard Wellbeloved, James
Freeson, Reginald Mayhew, Christopher Whitaker, Ben
Gardner, Tony Mendelson, J. J. Whitlock, William
Garrett, W. E. Millan, Bruce Wilkins, W. A.
Ginsburg, David Miller, Dr. M. S. Willey, Rt. Hn. Frederick
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C. Milne, Edward (Blyth) Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)
Gourlay, Harry Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test) Williams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch)
Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth) Molloy, William Williams, Clifford (Abertillery)
Gregory, Arnold Moonman, Eric Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin)
Grev, Charles (Durham) Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) Williams, W. T. (Warrington)
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) Willis, Rt. Hn. George (Edin. E.)
Griffiths, Will (Exchange) Morris, John (Aberavon) Winnick, David
Gunter, Rt. Hn. R. J. Moyle, Roland Woof, Robert
Hamilton, James (Bothwell) Murray, Albert Wyatt, Woodrow
Hamling, William Newens, Stan Yates, Victor
Hannan, William Norwood, Christopher
Harper, Joseph Oakes, Gordon TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) O'Malley, Brian Mr. Charles Morris and
Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith Oram, Albert E. Mr. Ioan L. Evans.
Haseldine, Norman Orbach, Maurice
NOES
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) Batsford, Brian
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) Awdry, Daniel Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton
Astor, John Balniel, Lord Bell, Ronald
Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) Grieve, Percy Neave, Airey
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm) Gurden, Harold Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael
Berry, Hn. Anthony Hall-Davis, A. G. F. Nott, John
Bessell, Peter Hamilton, Lord (Fermanagh) Onslow, Cranley
Biffen, John Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) Orr, Capt. L. P. S.
Biggs-Davison, John Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.W.) Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian
Black, Sir Cyril Harrison, Brian (Maldon) Page, Graham (Crosby)
Blaker, Peter Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) Page, John (Harrow, W.)
Boardman, Tom Harvie Anderson, Miss Pearson, Sir Frank (Clitheroe)
Body, Richard Hastings, Stephen Peel, John
Bossom, Sir Clive Hawkins, Paul Percival, Ian
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John Heseltine, Michael Peyton, John
Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward Higgins, Terence L. Pike, Miss Mervyn
Braine, Bernard Hiley, Joseph Pink, R. Bonner
Brewis, John Hill, J. E. B. Pounder, Rafton
Brinton, Sir Tatton Holland, Philip Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.- Col. Sir Walter Hooson, Emlyn Price, David (Eastleigh)
Bryan, Paul Hordern, Peter Prior, J. M. L.
Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N & M) Hornby, Richard Pym, Francis
Buck, Antony (Colchester) Howell, David (Guildford) Quennell, Miss J. M.
Bullus, Sir Eric Hunt, John Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James
Burden, F. A. Hutchison, Michael Clark Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter
Campbell, Gordon Iremonger, T. L. Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David
Carlisle, Mark Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Ridley, Hn. Nicholas
Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks)
Cary, Sir Robert Jopling, Michael Royle, Anthony
Chichester-Clark, R. Joseph, Rt. Hn. Sir Keith Russell, Sir Ronald
Clark, Henry Kaberry, Sir Donald Scott, Nicholas
Cooke, Robert Kerby, Capt. Henry Scott-Hopkins, James
Cooper-Key, Sir Neill Kershaw, Anthony Sharples, Richard
Cordle, John Kimball, Marcus Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby)
Corfield, F. V. King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) Sinclair, Sir George
Costain, A. P. Kirk, Peter Smith, John
Craddock, Sir Beresford (Spelthorne) Knight, Mrs. Jill Stainton, Keith
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Sir Oliver Lambton, Viscount Steel, David (Roxburgh)
Crouch, David Lancaster, Col. C. G. Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. (Ripon)
Crowder, F. P. Lane, David Tapsell, Peter
Dalkeith, Earl of Langford-Holt, Sir John Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Dance, James Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry Taylor, Edward M. (G'gow, Cathcart)
Davidson, James (Aberdeenshire, W.) Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Taylor, Frank (Moss Side)
Dean, Paul (Somerset, N.) Lloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langstone) Temple, John M.
Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford) Longden, Gilbert Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret
Digby, Simon Wingfield Loveys, W. H. Tilney, John
Dodds-Parker, Douglas Lubbock, Eric van Straubenzee, W. R.
Doughty, Charles MacArthur, Ian Vaughan-Morgan, Rt. Hn. Sir John
Drayson, G. B. Mackenzie, Alasdair (Ross & Crom'ty) Vickers, Dame Joan
du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward Maclean, Sir Fitzroy Walker, Peter (Worcester)
Eden, Sir John McMaster, Stanley Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) Wall, Patrick
Emery, Peter Maddan, Martin Ward, Dame Irene
Errington, Sir Eric Marten, Neil Weatherill, Bernard
Eyre, Reginald Maude, Angus Webster, David
Farr, John Mawby, Ray Wells, John (Maidstone)
Fisher, Nigel Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
Fletcher-Cooke, Charles Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater)
Foster, Sir John Mills, Peter (Torrington) Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Fraser, Rt. Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone) Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.) Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Gibson-Watt, David Miscampbell, Norman Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Giles, Rear-Adm. Morgan Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) Woodnutt, Mark
Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) Monro, Hector Worsley, Marcus
Glyn, Sir Richard Montgomery, Fergus Wright, Esmond
Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B. More, Jasper Younger, Hn. George
Goodhart, Philip Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh)
Goodhew, Victor Morrison, Charles (Devizes) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Grant, Anthony Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles Mr. R. W. Elliott and
Gresham Cooke, R. Munro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Mr. Timothy Kitson.