HC Deb 06 March 1968 vol 760 cc422-4
18. Mr. Buchanan-Smith

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had from local authorities and from other bodies in Scotland regarding an increase in the powers of the police to search for offensive weapons; when these representations were made; and if he will make a statement.

49. Mr. Monro

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has completed his consideration of the law relating to the search by the police of individuals for offensive weapons; and what action he proposes to take.

Mr. Buchan

The Glasgow magistrates asked towards the end of last year for additional powers for the police to search persons whom they have reasonable grounds to believe to be carrying an offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse in contravention of Section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act, 1953. The Chief Constables' (Scotland) Association indicated in January that such additional powers of search would be welcomed by the police generally.

The Lord Advocate has recently had discussions with the Association about the powers of the police in relation to such persons, and my right hon. Friend is considering further in the light of these discussions and other factors the proposal that the police should have additional powers of search.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, last year, the rise in the number of crimes of violence was twice the average of the previous five years? Is it not time to bring these considerations to some sort of conclusion and back up the police and magistrates in the perfectly genuine demands they are making?

Mr. Buchan

Of course I am aware of the increase in violence. It is shared by many other countries. We have been doing a great deal. The hon. Gentleman must not think that there is one panacea. We are looking into all the implications and we believe that the advice we have given about the existing powers of arrest has helped police and the magistrates considerably.

Mr. Monro

While these lengthy considerations are going on, people in Scotland are being seriously assaulted and others murdered. Is it not time for more speedy action?

Mr. Buchan

I wish hon. Members opposite would show the same seriousness about this problem as do the magistrates, the police and others. They recognise that the difficulties and the problems are not simple. Only certain hon. Members opposite seem to think that there is a simple panacea which will solve all the problems. There is not. We are giving proper and urgent consideration to this matter to try and find the right solution.

Mr. Dempsey

Can I ask my hon. Friend if he would think again about the existing powers? Will he try to conduct a survey throughout the country about this, and would he take into consideration how it is almost impossible to obtain a conviction in some cases of arrest? Could I ask him, in the light of recent experience, to give the police authority to detain and to strengthen their powers?

Mr. Buchan

My hon. Friend has this wrong. The police have the powers of arrest where they have reasonable cause to believe that a person is in possession of an offensive weapon and he may use it in pursuance of a crime. This has now been clarified to the police and the magistrates, and they have told us that they have found this clarification helpful. My hon. Friend should keep abreast of affairs.

Mr. Wylie

Will the hon. Member accept that we on this side of the House consider this matter to be of the utmost gravity and that we accept also that there is no question of a simple solution to the problem? Will he also accept from me that if he introduces legislation on these matters it would be generally welcomed, not only by the Glasgow magistrates and the police, but by the vast majority of law-abiding people in Scotland?

Mr. Buchan

I recognise all that the hon. and learned Gentleman has said—we have discussed this on more than one occasion. The problem cannot be properly considered unless it is recognised that such suggestions are no panaceas. This matter is not being treated with any lack of urgency.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

In view of the shortage of police, which is very serious in Scotland, can the Under-Secretary tell us what consideration is being given to bringing in potential policemen from the Army in Germany?

Mr. Buchan

We are looking at all possible sources of recruitment.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.