HC Deb 05 March 1968 vol 760 cc231-4

The following Questions stood upon the Order Paper:

Mr. BIGGS-DAVISON

To ask the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what reassessment he has made of the constitutional position of Rhodesia and of United Kingdom legislation affecting Rhodesia, since the judgment of the Appellate Division of the High Court in Salisbury on 29th January.

45. Mr. WINNICK

To ask the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will state the names of those under sentence of death in Rhodesia for alleged political offences; and if he will make a statement.

The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. George Thomson)

As regards the question by my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Mr. Winnick), I do not have full information about all those under sentence of death in Rhodesia or the offences for which they were sentenced.

The Southern Rhodesia Act, 1965, and the Southern Rhodesia Constitution Order made under it, lay down with out any ambiguity what the present constitutional status of Rhodesia is, and, in particular, that the régime there is illegal and its acts invalid.

As regards the judgments given in the Rhodesian courts, both in the case referred to by the hon. Member for Chigwell (Mr. Biggs-Davison) and in the death sentences case on which I answered a Question yesterday from the right hon. Member for Barnet (Mr. Maudling) the final appellate court for Rhodesia is the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and it is for it ultimately to lay down what the law is. The views expressed by the Appellate Division in Salisbury cannot be regarded as conclusive. As I stated yesterday, the legal position, according to the advice given to me, is that the delegation of the Prerogative of Mercy to the Governor of Rhodesia in the 1961 Constitution did not divest Her Majesty of Her Prerogative which in this situation She exercises on my advice.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

Is it not the case that all the judges ruled that Mr. Smith's Government is de facto and that some of them ruled that it is also de jure? Would the right hon. Gentleman care to obtain the views of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, which he has said is the highest authority? May we have its views on this important matter?

Mr. Thomson

I do not think that this is the occasion for me to comment on the attitude of individual judges, but the House will have seen that the Rhodesian High Court is far from unanimous on the matters at issue. As the hon. Gentleman may know, the position in the case to which he refers is that an application in regard to it may shortly be made to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. For that reason, I would prefer not to go into any detail.

Mr. Paget

On a point of order. Is it in order for us to discuss the decisions of Her Majesty's judges in Rhodesia?

Mr. Speaker

It is not in order to reflect on Her Majesty's judges in person. It is in order to comment on a judgment. If there is any reflection on any of Her Majesty's judges, it must be made in a Motion before the House.

Mr. Thomson

Further to that point of order. In view of the seriousness and delicacy of these matters, I hope that you, Mr. Speaker, will agree that I have deliberately sought not to comment in any way on Her Majesty's judges in Rhodesia.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

I had no intention of reflecting on any of Her Majesty's judges—quite the contrary.

Mr. Winnick

Even now we hope that the sentences will not be carried out and that the lives of the three Africans will not be taken. Does my right hon. Friend feel that there is a chance that the reprieve will be accepted by the illegal régime?

Mr. Thomson

I can give the House no information which is not already in its possession from reading what has appeared in the Press. I understand that Mr. Smith and his colleagues have been meeting in Salisbury today. But I am sure that it would be the wish of all quarters of this House—and I hope that it will go out to Rhodesia—that the régime will decide not to hang these three men.

Mr. Maudling

Have not the events of the last two or three days brought out in the starkest possible manner the appalling consequences which may follow if a settlement is not reached in Rhodesia? Is it not therefore incumbent on all of us to do everything we can to promote a settlement and to say nothing which may make its achievement more difficult?

Mr. Thomson

As I said yesterday, it is important to keep the delicate issues we are now discussing separate from the political issues in relation to a settlement. I repeat the view of Her Majesty's Government that we remain ready to seek a settlement which falls within the principles laid down by both sides of the House.

Mr. Judd

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that, if ultimate political responsibility for what happens in Rhodesia lies in this House, it is extremely disturbing that details of those in prison under sentence of death for alleged political offences are not known? How soon can this House have details of the people who are in prison?

Mr. Thomson

There are many aspects of the Rhodesian situation which are very disturbing indeed.