§ 11. Mr. Bakerasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what estimates he has made of the effect of sanctions on the Rhodesia economy within the current financial year.
§ Mr. George ThomasI would refer the right hon. Member to the Answer given by my right hon. Friend the Commonwealth Secretary to the hon. Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen) on 5th December, 1967.—[Vol. 755, c. 1109.]
§ Mr. BakerWould not the Minister of State agree that one of the effects of sanctions in Rhodesia has been to cause a diversification of agriculture in the country? Would it not be in the best interests of both black and white residents if imports to Rhodesia of British cattle were resumed?
§ Mr. ThomasNo, Sir.
§ Mr. Evelyn KingWould not the Minister accept that, whatever the economic effect, the political effect of sanctions has been to remove Rhodesia further still to the Right?
§ Mr. ThomasThe economic effect will in due course, I hope, reflect itself politically. In the meantime it would not be a bad idea for some hon. Members opposite to back Britain in this business rather than the illegal régime.
§ Mr. MaudlingAs the Minister is so anxiou3 to back Britain in this matter, would he give a similar estimate of the effect of sanctions on our economy?
§ Mr. ThomasYes, if the right hon. Member puts a Question down.
§ 15. Sir G. Nabarroasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what further progress he has made in negotiations for a Rhodesian settlement.
§ 16. Mr. Wallasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what new proposals have been received from Rhodesia since his visit to Salisbury.
§ 22. Mr. Biffenasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has received from the Rhodesian Government of Mr. Ian Smith requesting a settlement of outstanding constitutional problems; what answers he has given; and if he will make a statement.
§ 30. Mr. Molloyasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will take steps to enable the leaders of loyalist opinion in Rhodesia to contribute to reaching a solution in ending 210 illegality, and to commence negotiations on a constitutional basis.
§ Mr. George ThomsonI have nothing to add to the answers given by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 27th and 29th February.—[Vol. 759, c. 1229–31 and 1757–99.]
§ Mr. WallDoes the Secretary of State recognise that the report of the Rhodesia Constitutional Commission due this month will mark the end of the road as regards relations with Rhodesia? Has not the Governor recommended the continuation of talks, and what are the Government going to do about it?
§ Mr. ThomsonI have heard the end of the road prophesied on far too many political problems far too often ever to believe that kind of prophecy, but I recognise the urgent factors in this situation.
§ Sir G. NabarroHaving regard to the conversations last weekend between my right hon. Friend the shadow Foreign Secretary and Mr. Ian Smith and Sir Humphrey Gibbs, all of which have been imparted in confidence to members of Her Majesty's Government, what advantage does the right hon. Gentleman propose to derive from these important diplomatic exchanges?
§ Mr. ThomsonWe are glad to have the report from the right hon. Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Sir Alec Douglas-Home). The Government are studying that report with very great care at the moment.
§ Mr. BiffenDoes not every week that passes by poignantly underline the fact that the reality of political power now resides in Salisbury? Is it not much more suitable that Her Majesty's Government took that into account when framing their initiatives in this policy?
§ Mr. ThomsonWe have constantly to take into account the fact that successive Governments and the House are in the unhappy position of having responsibility for Rhodesia without having the power to exercise that responsibility in exactly the way we would like in Rhodesia. That does not absolve us from the responsibility, and I would have hoped that we should have continued in the efforts which have so far enjoyed support from both 211 sides of the House to bring about a peaceful solution to this problem.
§ Mr. MolloyDoes my right hon. Friend acknowledge that the illegal controllers in Rhodesia have already raped democracy and introduced savage censorship and that this, coupled with the recent events, indicates to anyone willing to look at the situation that this State is on the way to becoming a police State? Nevertheless, there are decent people there who wish to be loyal to the Crown and to the principles of democracy. Will my right hon. Friend now make the effort to talk to them and to encourage them rather than the illegal people who have stolen this land?
§ Mr. ThomsonI am always willing to encourage anybody inside or outside Rhodesia who is prepared to support the efforts to bring a peaceful end to this rebellion. I do not think that it will be helpful for me to make comments on particular groups inside Rhodesia. It is for the Rhodesians themselves to see the sterility of the path on which they have set themselves and to act accordingly.
§ Sir C. OsborneWould it not be wise statesmanship to raise sanctions for a period of three months to create a better atmosphere so that negotiations could take place to get an honourable settlement?
§ Mr. ThomsonThe hon. Gentleman is respected in the House for his ingenious ideas in economic matters, but I venture to suggest that that is not one of his best.
§ Mr. OrmeIs my right hon. Friend aware that the pressure being put on him at present to lift sanctions means in effect that sanctions are biting and hurting, particularly in relation to tobacco in Rhodesia? Despite those pressures and economic disadvantages, will he maintain the sanctions until the five principles are accepted by the Rhodesians?
§ Mr. ThomsonI think that sanctions are biting a good deal more deeply than a number of hon. Gentlemen opposite appear to accept, and it is certainly true that tobacco sanctions have bitten very deeply indeed. The fundamental fact is that so long as Rhodesia is on her present path she cuts herself off from the kind of development capital she used to have, which gave her one of the most 212 dynamic economies in Africa. The sooner she returns to constitutional rule, the sooner she will be returned to a dynamic economy.
§ 24. Mr. Juddasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs how many Members of Parliament have been invited by Her Majesty's Government to pay official visits to Rhodesia since his last visit; and whether he will make A statement.
§ Mr. George ThomasNone, Sir.
§ Mr. JuddDoes my hon. Friend agree that in the present critical situation the Government should make it perfectly clear that any visits by members of the Opposition have absolutely no backing from the Government at this stage?
§ Mr. ThomasIf right hon. and hon. Members opposite visit Rhodesia, it is up to them, and they must—[Interruption.] It is very hard to please the Opposition.
§ Mr. ManuelTry to please us. Never mind them.
§ Mr. ThomasWith your permission, Mr. Speaker, I shall try to please my side of the House. If right hon. and hon. Members visit Rhodesia, they must be careful to comport themselves in accordance with the traditions of the House and not to give comfort to the illegal reégime.
§ Mr. MaudlingIs it not good that right hon. and hon. Members on this side should visit Rhodesia, if, as a result, they are able to produce suggestions for a settlement which the Government cannot?
§ Mr. ThomasSo far as I know, no one has yet produced a settlement and right hon. Members opposite certainly did not do it.
§ Mr. MaudlingDid not the Secretary of State say that he was examining the proposals of my right hon. Friend the Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Sir Alec Douglas-Home)?
§ Mr. ThomasYes, Sir. But he did not say that they provided a settlement.
§ 31. Miss Lestorasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will introduce legislation to extend sanctions to prevent posts available in Rhodesia being advertised in this country.
§ Mr. George ThomasHer Majesty's Government deplore the publication of such advertisements but prefer not to emulate the illegal Rhodesian régime's practice of censoring the Press.
§ Miss LestorI thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but would not he agree that, whilst this country continues to accept advertisements for posts in Rhodesia, this is hardly likely to give the impression that we are trying to maintain our opposition to the régime there and, in fact, is inclined to give the impression that there is something attractive about it?
§ Mr. ThomasWe have not to emulate the undesirable practices of the illegal régime in order to prove our sincerity. We have made it clear to newspaper editors who have approached us that we deplore the appearance of these advertisements and we strongly hope that editors will not accept them.
§ 35. Mr. David Steelasked the Secretary of Slate for Commonwealth Affairs what proposals he now has for extending the sanctions on Rhodesia.
§ Mr. George ThomasMeans of making sanctions more effective are constantly under review in the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee and elsewhere, but it is not our policy to give the illegal régime advance warning of any conclusions reached or measures in view.
§ Mr. SteelIs the hon. Gentleman aware that these have been under review for a very long time? When are we going to get some conclusions from the Committee?
§ Mr. ThomasIt is not for me to reveal, even in the House, what are the discussions within the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee, but I can say that we support it in all its decisions.