HC Deb 18 June 1968 vol 766 cc913-6
Q6. Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

asked the Prime Minister whether the public speech of the Secretary of State for the Home Department at Blackpool on 28th May on prices and incomes legislation represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

Q7. Mr. Orme

asked the Prime Minister if the public speech of the Secretary of State for the Home Department, at Blackpool on 28th May on prices and incomes policy represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

The Prime Minister

I answered very similar Questions on 11th June, Sir, and fully elaborated my Answer in oral exchanges on 13th June. I have nothing to add to what I said then.—[Vol. 766, c. 27–8, 435–8.]

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

I have studied those exchanges with care and the Prime Minister did not seem to answer the question. On 28th May, the Home Secretary said that there must not be further legislation on prices and incomes after 18 months. Does the Prime Minister agree that there must not be further legislation or not?

The Prime Minister

I dealt with this matter fully last week. I said that the policy is as stated by me in my speech to which I referred in my previous Answer and in a public statement. If the hon. Gentleman or any other hon. Member interprets the statement of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary as implying that the options cannot be kept open and that there must be no legisla- tion, the answer is that this is not the Government's policy.

Mr. Orme

Is my right hon. Friend aware that criminal sanctions are still the central theme of the prices and incomes policy and have now been condemned by the Donovan Report? Will he now not confirm what my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary said—that we must not continue this policy after 18 months, even if it has to go on now?

The Prime Minister

No, Sir. I do not accept the simplification my hon. Friend has put about criminal sanctions. In the second place, the House will have to consider the Donovan Report in relation to a long-term solution to our industrial relations. With regard to the present legislation, I have said repeatedly that we hope that, given success with the three factors I have mentioned, it will not be necessary to introduce further legislation, but I would be wrong to give a pledge that there will be no further legislation.

Sir Cyril Osborne

May I put a new point to the Prime Minister on this issue? He will remember that the Home Secretary said that he believed that a prices and incomes policy was necessary. He said, secondly, that he did not believe it should be compulsory. How can he get a policy agreed, without imposing legislation, if the trade unions will not accept his policy?

The Prime Minister

The hon. Gentleman has rather over-simplified my right hon. Friend's speech. He certainly agreed, as do nearly all of us in the House, on the need for a prices and incomes policy. He went on to say that he supported the legislation at present before the House. I have explained many times why we feel in present circumstances that it is necessary to supplement the trade union voluntary policy with legislation.

Mr. Shinwell

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some hon. Members on these benches, and I think in other places, regard the speech of the Home Secretary in Brighton as a first-class speech? We agree with the contents of it. Would he extend a bit further this example of private enterprise by members of the Cabinet, so that the members of the Cabinet could disclose occasionally what they really think?

The Prime Minister

If my right hon. Friend is in full agreement with the speech of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, I find it difficult to understand why he did not vote for the legislation which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary says he supports.

Mr. Peyton

Perhaps the Prime Minister would be willing to say, with his usual precision, whether he endorses the remark made by his right hon. Friend that when the new legislation runs out —[HON. MEMBERS: "Reading."]

Sir Cyril Osborne

It is a quotation.

Mr. Peyton

I fully understand that the quotation from the Home Secretary is unpalatable.

Mr. Speaker

It is not only unpalatable, it is out of order.

Mr. Peyton

Would the Prime Minister say, with his usual precision—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. The House must hear the question.

Mr. Peyton

Would the Prime Minister say, with his usual precision, whether or not he endorses the remark made by the Home Secretary that when the new legislation runs out there will be a need for a voluntary policy?

The Prime Minister

Sir, there is a need for a voluntary policy. I have said in my own speeches that there is a need for a voluntary policy. This is what we are working towards, and it is where the other party manifestly failed in 13 years. The hon. Gentleman was stopped from reading the quotation—I am trying to help the hon. Gentleman now—but if he was quoting a reference that there must be a voluntary policy, no, I do not endorse that statement for reasons that I have said.