HC Deb 17 July 1968 vol 768 cc1407-10
15. Mr. Goodhew

asked the Secretary of State for Defence by what percentage the average earnings of general duty medical officers in the Forces exceed the present average net earnings of general practitioners in the National Health Service.

Mr. Reynolds

I regret that it is not possible to make a meaningful comparison as the effect of the 1966 award on the relevant earnings of general practitioners is not yet known.

Mr. Goodhew

Is the right hon. Gentleman seriously going to stand there quite happily for another two years waiting to calculate this? Is he not aware that successive Secretaries of State for Defence have accepted that to compensate for the inconvenience to medical officers in the Services they should have incomes 15 per cent. ahead of those in the National Health Service? What is he going to do about it?

Mr. Reynolds

The hon. Gentleman has his supplementaries mixed up. That should be for the next Question. On this Question he has asked me to carry out a calculation, requiring some information. One set of figures I have available. The other set is not available. The hon. Gentleman will surely agree that if one has not got the figures one cannot do the calculation.

Sir M. Stoddart-Scott

Will the right hon. Gentleman consult the Secretary of State with a view to joining the three medical services of the three fighting forces into one, thus saving medical manpower and paying better salaries?

Mr. Reynolds

That is a completely different Question, but I assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that we are looking all the time at all parts of the Services to see where administrative savings can be made.

Mr. Ramsden

In view of the shortage of doctors in the Services, will the right hon. Gentleman undertake when he gets the Kindersley Report in the autumn to make proposals for restoring the differential which experience has shown is essential for recruiting doctors? Has he got his Department back on speaking terms with the B.M.A. yet?

Mr. Reynolds

The Kindersley Report does not cover Service doctors. They are, as with all other Service officers, now subject to the general report of the National Board for Prices and Incomes. As the right hon. Gentleman will remember, the Government have asked the Board to try to deal with this matter within the next 12 months—that is, from the date of its previous report. I am always prepared to talk to the B.M.A., provided that I can get its co-operation in the usual way.

16. Mr. Goodhew

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what action he is taking concerning the morale of the medical branches of the Forces, and to halt the outflow of experienced medical officers.

Mr. Reynolds

The National Board for Prices and Incomes has been asked to complete a thorough-going review of doctors' pay within a year. I am also considering what other steps can be taken.

Mr. Goodhew

Is not the right hon. Gentleman deeply concerned at the figures he had to give me on 1st July concerning the premature retirements of medical officers, the number of short-service commissioned officers applying for permanent commissions, and the number of qualified doctors applying for direct entry into the Services? Does he intend to sit back for another year and allow the Services to fall back in the number of doctors they have?

Mr. Reynolds

Yes, Sir. No, Sir.

Sir T. Beamish

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise the very great seriousness of this situation? Is it not about time that he recognised the fact that a G.P. in civil life can earn well over £3,000 a year, which is far in excess of what his military counterpart can earn?

Mr. Reynolds

As I explained in answer to the previous Question, there are no accurate figures available as yet as to the relevant effect on general practitioners of the Kindersley Report. I hope that there will be later in the year. That will be the time when the information will be available to the Board, which will then report to the Government. I am concerned about the position, as I hope I have proved.

Mr. Maudling

The Minister said that he was; considering taking action. How soon will he make a statement to the House about this action?

Mr. Reynolds

The main part of any action must be to get the conditions of service of these men right; and I shall make a statement as soon as I can about anything that I am able to do in this direction.