HC Deb 15 July 1968 vol 768 cc1027-32
37. Mr. Pavitt

asked the Minister of Social Security in what circumstances rent is not allowed in full in assessing the requirements of an applicant for exemption from prescription charges on grounds of low income.

47. Mr. Molloy

asked the Minister of Social Security whether rate rebates are taken into account in assessing the requirements of an applicant for exemption from prescription charges on grounds of low income.

Mrs. Hart

Where there are other people living with the applicant but not dependent on him the rent will be treated as being reduced by their proportionate share. In all other cases the net rent is allowed in full. Rate rebates are taken into account indirectly, in that the net rent is taken as the amount of rent or rates actually paid by the claimant.

Mr. Pavitt

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that in areas like my constituency, where there is a shortage of housing and rents are abnormally high, it is very difficult to make an assessment for children living in the same house? Will she bear this family consideration in mind?

Mrs. Hart

I think that we do pay particular regard to the rental in relation to the particular housing circumstances of the area. I am quite certain that all my local officers will give the most sympathetic consideration to any specific difficulties that may arise in any of these cases.

Mr. Molloy

Will my right hon. Friend also consider that the very fact that there are people who are entitled to rent rebates means that they then suffer another form of disquiet because they feel that if they get a rent rebate their right to a free prescription may be cancelled; that this is going much too far, and that the most sensible thing she can do is to get in touch with her right hon. Friend the Minister of Health and get prescription charges abolished?

Mrs. Hart

I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern, but another point that arises is one on which I have just touched; the fact that we meet the difficulty of the variety of means-tested benefits there are as between local authority and Government. This pinpoints the need, of which the Government are already very well aware, to work on the possibilities of simplification that might arise in this field.

38. Mr. Pavitt

asked the Minister of Social Security what amount is allowed for prescription charges in assessing the requirements of an applicant for exemption from prescription charges on grounds of low income.

Mrs. Hart

The charge for one item. This shows whether, by standards laid down in the Regulations made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, the claimant can afford to meet the minimum charge in a week. If it shows that he cannot afford this, a certificate is issued authorising him and his dependants to claim exemption from all charges for a period of up to three months.

Mr. Pavitt

Is not this inadequate? Is it not possible that even the 2s. 6d. may be too much in certain circumstances? With a "season ticket" of 30s. will there be a restriction to a total not exceeding this sum on the number of prescriptions allowed?

Mrs. Hart

I am afraid that this has nothing to do with the particular aspect my hon. Friend raises. The point is simply that only one item is required in order to assess people in terms of exemption on grounds of low income. It has nothing to do with exemption on grounds of chronic sickness or with the special arrangements that are being made for people who, though not categorised as chronic sick nevertheless need a number of prescriptions over a given period.

Mr. Scott-Hopkins

Is it not clear from the Questions and Answers that this whole scheme has gone completely haywire? Will the right hon. Lady not look at the whole thing again, and consult her right hon. Friend the Minister of Health and the Prime Minister in order to bring in a scheme that is viable and works properly without all these endless complications?

Mrs. Hart

I would say to the hon. Gentleman that the scheme we are now operating certainly bears infinitely less hardly on those who need help than did the scheme operated by his Government.

42. Mr. Hooley

asked the Minister of Society Security whether she will publish the instructions issued to local officers of her Department regarding the administration of the prescription charge scheme.

Mrs. Hart

In my view, no useful purpose would be served by the publication of these instructions. Particulars of the way in which claims for exemptions from prescription charges on grounds of low income are assessed are available in the guide and claim form P.C.11, which can be obtained from any post office or local office of my Ministry. My local officers are available to give guidance in any particular case.

Mr. Hooley

Is it not a fact that my right hon. Friend is considering publishing what I believe is called the A Code; in other words, a code of instructions for the general administration of benefits? Would it not therefore be appropriate to publish some information about the way in which this very important form of exemption is to be handled?

Mrs. Hart

The question of the publication of the A Code is very different; the Supplementary Benefits Commission is certainly concerned to look at the possibility of publishing something which will explain the principles on which it exercises all its discretionary powers, Exemption from prescription charges is relatively straightforward and there is hardly anything to add to the details which already exist on the claim form which is obtainable by any member of the public.

Mr. Lipton

Does not my right hon. Friend now realise that in all quarters of the House and everywhere in the country this whole business of prescription charges is now regarded as a complicated fiasco? As the savings will be quite negligible, has not the time already come for the whole wretched business to be abandoned?

Mrs. Hart

If my hon. Friend were as aware as I am of the extent to which people in advance of having to pay prescription charges have claimed exemption in the first week of the operation of prescription charges on the ground of low income, I think that he would at least agree that what the Government have done is to introduce methods of administering prescription charges which really assist people on low incomes infinitely more than was the case previously.

46. Mr. Molloy

asked the Minister of Social Security whether annual bonuses are taken into account in assessing entitlement to exemption from prescription charges on ground of low income.

Mr. Loughlin

Annual bonuses will fall to be taken into account only in so far as they affect the claimant's current circumstances.

Mr. Molloy

Is it not now patently evident that as the years go on all these special schemes of special exemptions, though reflecting the good will of the Government to try to be fair, will be much more expensive than would be the case if she took the decision now to urge her right hon. Friend the Minister of Health to abolish the whole principle of charges for prescriptions?

Mr. Loughlin

I cannot very well see how the question of annual bonuses will increase the cost to the extent of discrediting the scheme.

50. Mr. Bidwell

asked the Minister of Social Security how many applications for exemption from prescription charges have been received; and how many exemption certificates have been issued by her Department.

Mrs. Hart

I assume that my hon. Friend's Question refers to applications for exemption from charges on grounds of hardship. In the period from 10th June to 18th June—the latest date for which figures are available—nearly 5,000 applications on these grounds were received, and just over 2,000 exemption certificates were issued. Of these successful applicants only 362 also required refunds. This suggests that of the applicants so far, most have claimed in advance of ever having to pay a charge.

Mr. Bidwell

Is my right hon. Friend not aware that there are lots of poor paid workers who, if the onus is fragmentary, do not feel that they can go for this kind of exemption? Is she aware that she is hitting people like this? Is she further aware that I have run out of inspiration and am full of exasperation, and will she now prevail on her right hon. Friend the Minister of Health to get rid of the nonsense altogether?

Mrs. Hart

I am not absolutely clear whether my hon. Friends would prefer that a system had been introduced which did not provide for exemptions on low income grounds. The tenor of their remarks this afternoon seems to suggest that that is what they would prefer. If so, I can only disagree with them, because to do it in this way is not adding an undue complication to the whole machinery, and it does ensure that we can be a great deal fairer to people on low incomes than was the case when prescription charges were introduced by the previous Government.

Mr. Lubbock

Does not the right hon. Lady agree that the small number of applications that have been received shows that many people entitled to exemption have not understood the scheme sufficiently well to make application? Has she not seen these figures, which show that a 25 per cent. to 30 per cent. drop has taken place in the number of prescriptions following the introduction of the new scheme, and does not this indicate that it has been very harmful indeed?

Mrs. Hart

The figures I have refer to the very first week, because those are the latest figures we have. I find it an extremely encouraging figure in relation to the time there is available for people to apply before sickness begins to bear on them. The hon. Gentleman will realise that in most cases previously, since there were only applications for refunds, one could only measure the number of applications after people had become sick. These are the figures of people who have applied before going to their doctor.