§ 76. Mr. Allasonasked the Minister of Transport whether he will give a general direction to British Railways to withdraw the two-car Craven diesel units from service on commuter lines pending the report on the accident on the Luton-St. Pancras line on 12th June.
§ Sir Knox CunninghamOn a point of order. Are we to understand that the Government are so discourteous to the House that there is no Minister here to answer this Question?
§ Mr. SpeakerThese answers will be given later.
§ Later—
The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Mr. Bob Brown)I apologise to the House for not being present when the Question was first called. The Answer is as follows:
No, Sir. The safety of operations of the railways is the statutory responsibility of the Railways Board, and it would not be appropriate for my right hon. Friend to give a general direction of this kind.
§ Mr. AllasonAs these Craven units were designed for rural services and it is nonsense to use them in the commuter rôle, the Minister ought to have sufficient control over the British Railways Board 1094 to deal with the matter. Does he realise that, after this series of fires, it is not fair to put commuters into a car from which there are only four exits?
Mr. BrownI do not accept that. In any event, it would be entirely wrong for my right hon. Friend to interfere in what is a matter of day-to-day management on the railways.
§ Mr. GoodhewIs the hon. Gentleman aware that, although the inquiry is to begin tomorrow, the results will be a long time coming? Is he prepared to accept responsibility for the safety of these passengers in the interim?
Mr. BrownIt would be wrong for my right hon. Friend to presuppose the outcome of any inquiry, and, as I have said, it would be wrong for him to intervene in what is a management matter for British Railways.
§ Mr. Peter WalkerThe Minister must be aware of the grave anxiety felt by people using this line. Is it not possible for him to say categorically that there is no danger whatever or that he will see that other types of carriage are used, until the inquiry is concluded?
Mr. BrownThe Minister is aware of all the anxieties. He is aware also that the management of British Railways is to be depended upon to exercise responsibility.
§ 77. Mr. Allasonasked the Minister of Transport what modifications were made to diesel cars on British Railways as a result of the recommendations made by the inspecting officer of the inquiry into the fire which occurred in a diesel car on the Luton-St. Pancras line in August, 1965.
Mr. Bob BrownThe recommendations made by the inspecting officer in his Report on the fire that occurred on a diesel multiple-unit passenger train at Sandridge near St. Albans on 18th August, 1965, were restated in the Report on the later fire on a similar train at Napsbury near Radlett on 9th February, 1966. The modifications carried out by the British Railways Board as a result of the recommendations in these two Reports have been dealt with together, and I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer 1095 to the hon. Member for St. Albans (Mr. Goodhew), on Monday, 17th June.—[Vol. 766. c. 104.]
§ Mr. AllasonWhen the Minister answered on this matter before, he did not refer to the two earlier inquiries into fires. There have been three fires before this last one, and three inquiries. We heard only of the one inquiry. Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that even with modifications these cars can be made safe?
§ Mr. HefferOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Further to the point of order I raised earlier about the hot air in the Chamber, could you say whether anything is being done? It seems to be getting worse, not better.
§ Mr. SpeakerI am sure that the hon. Gentleman does not want Mr. Speaker to leave the Chair to attend to it. I have had inquiry made, and those in charge are aware of the matter which he has raised. I have not had any report yet.
§ Mr. HefferMight it not be a good idea, Mr. Speaker, if the House were suspended and the Chamber emptied while the matter was settled?
§ Mr. SpeakerWe cannot do that.