HC Deb 17 January 1968 vol 756 cc1767-8
24. Mr. Stodart

asked the Minister of Transport if she will exclude Scotland from the proposed licensing system of lorries on journeys over 100 miles.

Mr. Carmichael

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer given to the right hon. Member for Argyll (Mr. Noble) and the hon. Member for North Angus and Mearns (Mr. Buchanan-Smith) on 20th December, 1967.—[Vol. 756, c. 1243–44.]

Mr. Stodart

Is not this a blatantly ridiculous proposal concerning Scotland, where the centres of population are so far apart? Is it not likely that journeys of under 100 miles in Scotland will be the exception rather than the rule? How does this proposal square with the Prime Minister's assurance yesterday that the growth of the Civil Service must be arrested?

Mr. Carmichael

As to the growth of the Civil Service, these licences, if issued, will be valid for five years and, therefore, there will be much less paper work than there was previously. Concerning the 100-mile limit in Scotland, the figures from all the surveys suggest that a surprisingly small number of journeys of vehicles within Scotland are over 100 miles. We believe that the proposals in the Transport Bill will certainly not adversely affect Scotland as against the rest of the country.

Mr. Noble

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary realise that he is using in answer to this Question the Answer which he gave to an earlier Question when he said that there was no discrimination against Scotland? The point is that there are areas of Scotland which are so dissimilar to the rest of the country that special provisions are needed to meet their needs. Will he please try to meet those provisions?

Mr. Carmichael

In my answer to the right hon. Gentleman on 20th December, I said clearly that in areas where there was no possibility of the railways being able to provide a service equal to or better than that of road haulage, the licences would be granted automatically. I see nothing in that Answer to contradict what I have said today.

Mr. Lawson

Does not my hon. Friend agree that this is largely a stunt by the other side of the House and that in the Highlands of Scotland particularly, where there is virtually no railway system, there can be no question of these licences not being granted?

Mr. Carmichael

My hon. Friend is perfectly correct. I should also pay tribute to the fact that his detailed work concerning the transport of heavy loads had a considerable influence on my right hon. Friend in her decision to reconsider the question of development areas in Committee.