HC Deb 12 February 1968 vol 758 cc924-7
5. Mr. Marten

asked the Minister of Technology if he will now make a further statement on the financing of the Concorde.

15. Mr. Biffen

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement on the financing of the post development stages of the Concorde; and if he will give an assurance that the liability to British public funds will be strictly limited to development costs.

Mr. Benn>

Discussions with the manufacturers on the financing of Concorde production are continuing. I informed the House on 1st February that I would introduce a Concorde clause into the Industrial Expansion Bill at the Committee stage and would make a further statement to the House. I have nothing to add as yet.—[Vol. 757, c. 1590.]

Mr. Marten

Does the proposal to finance the Concorde in this way through the Industrial Expansion Bill mean that the Government could be contemplating taking equity shares in the British Aircraft Corporation?

Mr. Benn

I ask the hon. Gentleman to await the publication of the Clause. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] Because I promised to make a statement to the House, and I think that it is better to wait until I make that statement and table the Clause. I can, however, make it clear that the Concorde production finance will be by means of a separate Clause and not under general powers in the Bill.

Mr. Biffen

As the British Aircraft Corporation is so eloquent about the aircraft's economic prospects, is not it extraordinary that it should not itself wish to finance the post-development cost rather than swing it on to the British taxpayer?

Mr. Benn

It is not expected that the Government will provide all the finance for the Concorde. One of the things we are discussing with the firm is the point the hon. Gentleman raises, but I understand that even the United States Government will be paying some part of the American S.S.T. programme.

Mr. Ellis

What is the position as regards the production line? Has it been held up in any way by problems of finance?

Mr. Benn

There has been no delay whatsoever in the work on the production of aircraft, for which we have been making money available.

Mr. Corfield

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that unless the Concorde comes to production with the minimum of delay, and then can go into production as rapidly as possible, the total cogs are bound to inflate?

Mr. Benn

Yes, but there has been and will be no delay. The hon. Gentleman's Question gives me the opportunity of saying so.

26. Mr. Onslow

asked the Minister of Technology when the first flight of the Concorde prototypes 001 and 002 will now take place.

31. Mr. Hastings

asked the Minister of Technology what is now the forecast date for the first flight of Concorde 001.

Mr. Benn

The manufacturers are making a detailed review of adjustments and checks remaining to be completed before the first flight of zero-zero-one. They will be making a statement about a revised first flight date as soon as they are in a position to make a reasonably firm prediction. I am not prepared to anticipate this statement. First flight of zero-zero-two remains planned for September, 1968.

Mr. Onslow

The House will be encouraged to know that there has been no delay for any reason in 002. As to the roll-out of the aircraft, will the Minister give the firms responsible an indication that it would be a good thing if the men in the industry, particularly on the shop floor, who have taken such a part in the project and worked so skilfully, will be able to take part in the ceremony, as they were prevented from doing in Toulouse?

Mr. Benn

This is a matter principally for the firms, but I have taken the opportunity of discussing informally with B.A.C. how this might be handled. The hon. Member's suggestion is a very useful one.

Mr. Hugh Jenkins

When the flight takes place, will my right hon. Friend pay particular regard to it especially in relation to noise levels, both supersonically and subsonically?

Mr. Benn

I should be very alarmed if the first flight was supersonic. The purpose of the first flight is to make preliminary tests, and on that occasion engine noise will be noted. That is why test flights are held.

34. Mr. Hugh Jenkins

asked the Minister of Technology what effect solar flares will have on Concorde when flying at a great height.

Mr. Benn

They will have no significant effect either on the aircraft or its occupants. On the very rare occasions when a solar flare occurs that is of sufficient severity to justify the precaution, the aircraft will descend to an altitude lower than that at which it would normally cruise.

Mr. Jenkins

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the engine which is to be used for this aircraft, the Olympus 593, consumes more fuel than any other known aircraft engine, and that if a solar flare were experienced in mid-Atlantic, the aircraft would not be able to make landfall in either the United States or the United Kingdom?

Mr. Benn

My hon. Friend is misinformed on this. The Concorde has about the same range subsonically as supersonically. There is an in-flight warning system that will give 20 minutes warning of a solar flare. All that is required is that the aircraft descends from 60,000 to 50,000 feet. I must tell the House that even in this Chamber we are exposed to solar flares, but they are not fatal at this altitude.

Mr. Corfield

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is time that we started taking a pride in some of our achievements, instead of constantly banging them?

Mr. Benn

I absolutely agree. I must say that that warning applies to both sides of the House in certain circumstances.

Mr. Marten

Would the Minister inform his hon. Friend that all these matters were gone into most carefully in 1962 and 1963 when this subject was being projected? Would he advise him to stop knocking the Concorde on every opportunity?

Mr. Benn

Yes, if hon. Members opposite will stop knocking Beagle, and one or two of our other aircraft projects. One of the problems here is that this is exploring the frontiers of technology. Some people think that Concorde will be avoiding solar flares like Dr. Who avoiding the Daleks, and it is not like this at all.

Mr. John Hynd

May we take it from the Minister's Answer that the Government intend, in spite of Press reports, to go on with the Concorde?

Mr. Benn

I have taken the opportunity of making this clear, but I am glad to have a fresh opportunity.

Mr. Jenkins

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.