§ Q2. Mr. Wyattasked the Prime Minister whether he will now make a statement on the future functions of the Department of Economic Affairs.
§ The Prime MinisterI would refer my hon. Friend to the answers I gave to Questions on 23rd April.—[Vol. 763, c. 26–71]
§ Mr. WyattArising out of that totally expected reply, will my right hon. Friend warn the Minister who has now taken over the incomes policy part of the De- 478 partment against suggesting that it is easy to make productivity agreements which can go beyond the 3½ per cent. level? Is he aware that to negotiate a genuine productivity agreement takes something like six to nine months, which cannot possibly have any bearing on the Government's incomes policy over the next nine months?
§ The Prime MinisterMy answer to that entirely predictable supplementary question is that the position is seen by my right hon. Friend exactly in these terms—that productivity agreements must be genuine and guaranteed. I do not accept that in every case they take six, eight or nine months. In some cases, for example, in what has now been worked out on the railways following the meeting at Downing Street in February, 1966, they take considerably longer. But there are other obvious productivity agreements, to be worked out at either national or local level, which can be worked out much more quickly if there are changes in the restrictive practices at present prevailing.
§ Mr. HefferIs not my right hon. Friend aware that it is impossible to negotiate productivity agreements for large sections of workers in this country because they are not in a position to be concerned actually with productivity in the same sense as workers in other industries are? Is it not clear that this leads to a great deal of confusion and a lot of hardship, particularly for the lower-paid sections of workers who cannot be involved in productivity agreements of that kind?
§ The Prime MinisterMy hon. Friend is quite right. It has been said many times and understood by everyone that, for example, in large sections of clerical work, in the social services, in hospitals and among such workers as signalmen on the railways, it cannot be done on the basis of productivity—
§ Mr. HefferAnd the Liverpool buses?
§ The Prime MinisterI do not intend to add anything on that question at the moment—but the more we can get productivity agreements and get national productivity up, the more we shall have a social dividend available over the next year or two years to help meet the needs of those who cannot have individual productivity agreements.
§ Mr. MaudlingThe Prime Minister said that his hon. Friend's supplementary question was predictable. In that case, why could he not answer the question about those people for whom productivity agreements could not be achieved in six or nine months?
§ The Prime MinisterThe question was, "Was I aware…" or "Would I make clear…" to my right hon. Friend that these things could not be worked out in less than that period. I do not accept it. There are many which could be worked out very quickly indeed. The question of how long it takes is very much a matter of the attitude to the negotiations. If there is a genuine desire for productivity, we can have productivity agreements of a guaranteed character very quickly.