CONSTRUCTION ETC. OF PUBLIC SEWERS AND PUBLIC SEWAGE TREATMENT WORKS. (Hansard, 10 April 1968)

§ The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. William Ross)
I beg to move Amendment No. 2, in page 2, line 31, after 'works', insert: 'and of the right to object thereto'.

§ Mr. Speaker
I propose that with Amendment No. 2 we take Amendments No. 3, No. 4, in page 2, line 32, leave out from 'owner' to 'may' in line 34 and insert: 'or occupier objects thereto, or attaches to their consent any terms or conditions to which the local authority object, and such objections or terms or conditions are not withdrawn, the local authority';

§ Mr. Ross
These Amendments are to give effect to undertakings which we gave during the Committee stage to reconsider 1458 the procedure for giving notice and for objections where a local authority proposes to construct works which will form part of its sewerage system. This Amendment gives effect to a suggestion made by the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh, Pentlands (Mr. Wylie) during the Committee proceedings to provide that in giving notice to an owner or occupier of intending works, whether inside or outside their area, the local authority must draw attention to the right to object.
The main Government Amendment is Amendment No. 3, at page 2, line 32. The effect is that where a local authority proposes to construct a sewer in or over any land—other than in a street, either inside or outside its area, the owner or occupier of the land will have an opportunity to object within two months, in which case the sheriff must decide whether or not the works are to proceed. If no objection is lodged, the local authority can start work at the end of the two months.
This replaces the existing provisions of subsection (2) whereby the owner and occupier must each give a positive consent, without which the local authority cannot proceed except by order of the sheriff. The Amendment reduces the risk of undue delay without depriving the owner or occupier of his right of objection. This point was first raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Maryhill (Mr. Hannan) but it was supported from both sides of the Committee and has the support of the County Councils' Association.
Amendment No. 8, at page 3, line 2, makes a corresponding alteration to the procedure in subsections (3) and (4) of Clause 3, where the local authority proposes to execute works of sewerage outside its area and a neighbouring local authority has a right to object.

§ Mr. N. R. Wylie (Edinburgh, Pentlands)
We are obliged to the Minister for promoting these Amendments which as he said, follow undertakings given in Committee. There is only one difference between our Amendments and the Minister's, and that is that the Minister's does not appear to take account of the possibility that, while an owner may not object to the proposal, he may annexe conditions to the consent to which the 1459 local authority may take an exception. This possibility is envisaged in subsection (2) where it is provided: …and the occupier fail to give their consent, or attach to their consent any terms or conditions to which the local authority objects, the local authority may refer the matter … This is not a matter which ought to take up a great deal of time, but, since the Minister is departing from those words and leaving aside the possibility of a conditional acceptance not acceptable to the local authority, we ought to have an explanation before we let the Government's Amendment through.

§ Mr. Buchan
By leave of the House. This is the basic distinction between these two sets of Amendments. It seems unnecessary to include the requirement that the hon. and learned Gentleman has mentioned. As we propose to alter the Clause, it will provide adequate protection for the person or the local authority willing to consent on conditions which the first local authority finds unacceptable. It will be able to object. I have looked at this point, and it seems to be completely covered.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Member does not need the leave of the House to speak again.

§ Mr. Buchan
I beg to move Amendment No. 5, in page 2, line 39, at end insert: (3) Section 349 of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1947 (service of notices) shall apply to notices under subsection (2) above relating to land as it applies to notices relating to premises. When the Bill was in Committee the hon. Member for Glasgow, Maryhill (Mr. Hannan) suggested that subsection (2) of Clause 3 should empower the local authority, where the owner is unknown or cannot be found, after reasonable inquiry, to post notice of proposed works prominently on the land. We felt that to some extent this was already covered, 1460 but there is some doubt about the extent to which it might apply to land. The purpose of this Amendment is to make it quite clear that in the context of Clause 3 the power extends to both land and premises.

§ Mr. Buchan
I beg to move Amendment No. 6, in page 2, line 43, after shall ', insert: 'in addition to any notice served under subsection (2) above'.

§ Mr. Speaker
With this we will also discuss Amendment No. 7, in page 2, line 43, after 'serve', insert 'a further'.

§ Mr. Buchan
Again, the Government Amendment deals with a point raised in Committee. When a local authority proposes to undertake to construct a sewer, whether inside or outside its area, it must serve notice under Clause 3(2), on the owner and occupier of any affected premises. Under subsection (4) it must serve notice on the local authority for the area adjoining that upon which the works are to be executed. The Amendment makes it clear that this notice is additional to any notice served on owners and occupiers, and is not in substitution for such notice. This is already implicit in Clause 3, but it is as well to put the matter beyond doubt.

§ Mr. Wylie
This is a very small matter, but I would have thought that as a matter of drafting Amendment 7 was preferable, if only because it cut down the number of words. The Government Amendment undoubtedly seeks to make clear that this is a notice additional to the one referred to earlier. It says: … in addition to any notice served under subsection (2) above … The same result can be obtained by simply inserting the two words "a further". For economy of wording and simplicity of expression our Amendment seems preferable. We are not disposed to oppose the Government Amendment if the view of the Minister is that it is essential.

§ Mr. Buchan
It is essential. The difficulty is that the Opposition Amendment would not cover a situation where the works are to be undertaken in a street, while our Amendment does.

§ Mr. Wylie
I beg to move Amendment No. 10, in page 3, line 32 after 'into', insert 'any of'.
This is a small drafting Amendment. I hope that it commends itself to the Minister, but it is not one to which we attach any great significance.

§ Mr. Buchan
I hope that the Opposition will withdraw this Amendment. I think it is unnecessary, although I see the paint about the fear that the Clause as drafted would require that all the sewers O' the first authority would have to be connected with all the sewers and works or the second authority. This is not so. It is quite clear as it stands. If this were to be accepted, we would have to change other things which would add further wards, and I know that the hon. and learned Member dislikes that.

§ Mr. Wylie
In view of that explanation, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.