§ 1. Mr. Winnickasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will state the progress of the latest sanctions taken against the illegal régime in Rhodesia.
§ 3. Mr. Biggs-Davisonasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs whether he will make a statement on the future of sanctions against Rhodesia.
§ 13. Mr. Juddasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what further action he has taken within the framework of the efforts of the United Nations and Commonwealth countries to implement comprehensive mandatory sanctions against Rhodesia; and whether he will make a statement.
§ 27. Mr. Biffenasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what is the latest assessment he has made of the effect of sanctions on the Rhodesian economy and on Rhodesian domestic politics.
§ The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. George Thomson)I would refer the hon. Members to the statements made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and by myself on 27th March, 1968.
§ Mr. WinnickCan the Commonwealth Secretary give any indication how soon it will be when sanctions are extended and along what lines they are likely to be extended? Are we in touch with the United Nations Secretariat about sanction-busting, as one or two countries should know better?
§ Mr. ThomsonWe are of course in touch with the United Nations Secretariat, and in the United Nations itself 1049 consultations are going on about a possible resolution. I should not like to anticipate the results of those consultations.
§ Mr. Biggs-DavisonIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that there will be the utmost resistance on this side of the House to any extension of these sanctions, which have strengthened Mr. Smith?—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Witness the lifting of the censorship. If the object is to induce negotiations, will the right hon. Gentleman take up the offer of my right hon. Friend the Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Sir Alec Douglas-Home)?
§ Mr. ThomsonI cannot agree with the hon. Member. The question of extension of sanctions is of course something that is designed to indicate to the régime that, however long it seeks to go along this road, it is a road which leads to economic stagnation. I think that enjoys very general support at the United Nations as well as very considerable support in this House.
§ Mr. BiffenOn Question No. 27, could the right hon. Gentleman confirm that in fact the political position of Mr. Smith in Rhodesia today is stronger than ever before? Is it not now quite clear that sanctions is a policy which is far more hurtful to this country than it is in promoting the cause which the Government seek to promote?
§ Mr. ThomsonNo, Sir. I cannot accept that at all. I think the hon. Member must know very well that at the moment, for example, Rhodesia has cut herself off from her traditional sources of outside development capital and is using her internal resources for wasteful stockpiling of unexportable commodities like tobacco. Since the African population of Rhodesia is increasing very rapidly, the real economic state in Rhodesia is one of decline.
§ Mr. WhitakerIs my right hon. Friend aware that, unless the sanctions policy is made effective, there is a danger that the Commonwealth will not survive? Will he therefore consider listing the individual foreign companies which are violating sanctions so that measures can be taken against them at the United Nations?
§ Mr. ThomsonI agree with my hon. Friend that the future of the Commonwealth is very much at stake in making sanctions as effective as possible. The suggestion my hon. Friend makes is one of a number of suggestions that are under consideration at the United Nations at the moment.
§ Mr. MaudlingThe Secretary of State did not answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen), which was simply this. Is it not a fact that the political position of Mr. Smith is now stronger than ever?
§ Mr. ThomsonI am increasingly depressed by the degree to which hon. Members, and now right hon. Members, opposite rush in to suggest how strong Mr. Smith is. These great and serious moral international issues must be seen in a much longer time scale than the temporary popularity of an individual over a month or two.
§ Mr. MaudlingThat is not good enough. The point simply is that the House should know whether sanctions are working. Have not sanctions in fact strengthened the position of Mr. Smith?
§ Mr. ThomsonIn the short run sanctions are bound to have the effect that the right hon. Gentleman is describing. Is he drawing the implication from that, that in the short run we should surrender? I certainly do not draw that implication.
§ 4. Mr. Biggs-Davisonasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs which countries are, and which are not, now applying United Nations mandatory sanctions against Rhodesia; what representations have been made in this regard; and with what result.
§ Mr. George ThomsonI would refer the hon. Member to the Answer which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister gave to the hon. Member for Dorset, South (Mr. Eveyn King) on 25th January, 1968. As the hon. Member will be aware, exchanges between Governments are confidential.—[Vol. 757, c. 173.]
§ Mr. Biggs-DavisonSince when there has been no change. Is not the Secretary of State aware that one of the consequences of this futile farce is that other members of the United Nations—competitors of ours—are merely taking our 1051 trade? When will the Government face facts and bind up these self-inflicted wounds?
§ Mr. ThomsonIf the hon. Gentleman feels that way, why does he resist the proposal for comprehensive mandatory sanctions which would put those people who are, as he says, taking our trade on an equal footing with British traders?
§ 5. Mr. John Fraserasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement about the latest recommendations of the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee.
§ Mr. George ThomsonNo, Sir. The Committee's proceedings are confidential.
§ Mr. FraserNotwithstanding that, could the Government, in consultation with our Commonwealth colleagues, use every possible pressure—for instance, on Portugal—whether it be through N.A.T.O., E.F.T.A. or any other medium, to ensure that there is proper policing of sanctions on the Mozambique border?
§ Mr. ThomsonI assure my hon. Friend that the discussions now going on at the United Nations are designed to fulfil the purposes he has in mind.
§ Mr. Eldon GriffithsWe welcome the Secretary of State back from his recent very long journey. Did he obtain from Commonwealth Governments in Asia a very great deal of support for his sanctions policy?
§ Mr. ThomsonYes.
§ 12. Mr. Juddasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what information he now has regarding the number of men under sentence of death in Rhodesia as the result of guerilla activity; whether next of kin have been informed; and whether the names of all those thus sentenced are now known.
§ The Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. William Whitlock)There is nothing that I can at present add to the Answer which was given to my hon. Friend on 12th March.—[Vol. 760, c. 262.]
§ Mr. JuddDoes my hon. Friend agree that that sentence for any of the freedom fighters in what amounts to a civil war situation is utterly indefensible, and that they should be assured of prisoner-of-war status? If we are not in a position 1052 to guarantee that ourselves, will my hon. Friend initiate discussions with the Red Cross?
§ Mr. WhitlockThe names of all those who have been sentenced cannot be known because some have been withheld for security reasons. Moreover, the names of those whom the régime has announced its intention of not hanging have not been disclosed. It would therefore be very difficult to find out by any means who are the people involved.
§ Mr. Biggs-DavisonIs it Her Majesty's Government's position that it is all right for Mr. Dupont, the Officer Administering the Government, as he is called, to exercise or usurp the Royal prerogative of mercy and reprieve persons sentenced to death in Rhodesia?
§ Mr. WhitlockNo, Sir.
§ 21. Mr. Brooksasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs whether he will state Her Majesty's Government's policy with regard to the maintenance of law and order in Rhodesia.
§ Mr. George ThomsonHer Majesty's Government would deplore a breakdown of law and order in Rhodesia. Their policy is to promote a return to constitutional rule and they do not believe that this will be achieved by violence.
§ Mr. BrooksDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the policy of sanctions is designed to cause a crisis of confidence and of government in Salisbury? Is not the very success of the sanctions policy to be measured, at least to some extent, by a steady weakening of the internal forces of law, order and racialist repression?
§ Mr. ThomsonI do not agree with that. The policy of sanctions is designed precisely in order to try to produce a peaceful solution without all the suffering to people of all races that would result from the use of force and violence.
23. Mr. Colin Jacksonasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the current situation in Southern Rhodesia.
§ Mr. George ThomsonI have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and I said in the debate on Rhodesia on 27th March.
Mr. JacksonBearing in mind certain remarks from hon. Members opposite 1053 today, will my right hon. Friend remind the House that the State of Mr. Smith is a police State? Is there any evidence either in education or housing that Mr. Smith's régime has moved any way towards a multiracial society?
§ Mr. ThomsonOn education and housing, I am afraid that the sad evidence is that the Smith régime have been moving in a more segregationist direction. We of course welcome the lifting of the censorship by the régime inside Rhodesia, although I am bound to say that I would feel more optimistic about the future if the régime were to go ahead and lift some of the more oppressive features of the police State.
§ Mr. MaudlingDoes it remain the position of the Government that they are not prepared to have any negotiations with the present régime of Mr. Smith?
§ Mr. ThomsonThe immediate question is to see what comes out of the consultations at present going on in the Security Council. This is the immediate scene of future action in relation to Rhodesia.
§ 34. Mr. Hugh Jenkinsasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will remove the word British from the title of the British South Africa Police, in view of the fact that they are now fighting for the Rhodesian illegal régime against loyal British subjects in Rhodesia.
§ Mr. WhitlockThis would serve no useful purpose.
§ Mr. JenkinsIs my hon. Friend aware that some of the casualties suffered by white rebels in Rhodesia have been created by bombing by the Royal Rhodesian Air Force? Will he advise Her Majesty to remove the title "royal" from this traitorous and inaccurate organisation?
§ Mr. WhitlockThat is an entirely different question.