RECREATIONAL FACILITIES AT WATER UNDERTAKERS' RESERVOIRS AND OTHER WATERS.

HC Deb 09 April 1968 vol 762 cc1287-9

Mr. Channon

I beg to move Amendment No. 107, in page 18, line 29, leave out from 'undertakers' to end of line 3, and insert: 'shall unless it appears to them unreasonable to do so'. The Amendment arises out of a discussion we had in Committee about the position of statutory water undertakers. Many hon. Members thought that the duty placed upon statutory water undertakers would be more appropriate if it was worded the other way round. As the Clause stands, statutory water undertakers may, if it appears to them reasonable so to do, permit the use by members of the public for the purposes of any form of recreation which the undertakers consider appropriate, and the Clause goes on to describe what this entails. I moved an Amendment in Committee to ensure that the Clause would read: Statutory water undertakers shall, unless it appears to them unreasonable to do so, permit the use by members of the public and so on.

At that stage, we had an undertaking from the Minister of State, Welsh Office, that she would consider the matter. She said: … we have a certain sympathy with the point of view which has been expressed."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, Standing Committee A, 30th January, 1968; c. 649.] I now look to the right hon. Lady to translate her sympathy into practical action, and I am a little surprised that it has not been done already. I know that the statutory water undertakers are worried by the terms of this Amendment, and, no doubt, it would be possible to find an alternative form of words which would meet the case and not worry them so much. I do not think they need be particularly worried, because they would still have the right to stop members of the public coming if they thought it unreasonable that they should.

There is a case for putting the duty the other way round. The Government were sympathetic during the Committee stage. I hope that they will accept the Amendment, or something very like it, either now or at a later stage.

Mrs. White

We have not put down an Amendment, and I am not in a position to advise the House to accept the one now moved by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Channon). The reason is that my hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State, Ministry of Housing and Local Government, is to meet representatives of the British Waterworks Association shortly after Easter to discuss the best way of handling this matter. The hon. Gentleman acknowledged that there are certain apprehensions about his Amendment. We think it desirable that there should be further talks. We have not been able to arrange them earlier, but they are to take place shortly. On the outcome of the talks will depend whether we may feel able to go as far as the Opposition went when the Bill goes to another place. At this stage, I can go no further than that. We are seized of the point which was made in Committee, and we hope to be able to deal with it before very long.

Mr. Channon

I am grateful that the matter is still receiving consideration. Perhaps the Minister of State will be good enough to let me know the result of the discussions. If all goes well, perhaps we may see an Amendment in another place.

At this stage, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mrs. White

I beg to move Amendment No. 39, in page 19, line 7, leave out 'of any waterway'.

Mr. Speaker

With this Amendment we shall discuss Amendments Nos. 40 and 41.

2.0 a.m.

Mrs. White

The Amendments arise from a discussion on what was then Clause 16 and is now Clause 17. It was said that in addition to charges being made for the use of a reservoir or other waterway, for purposes such as for sailing, it would be logical to ensure that charges could be made for any installations on land. This seemed to us a fair point, and we have dealt with it.

It was also pointed out that it would be desirable to enable statutory water undertakings which permit the use of their reservoirs and gathering grounds for recreation to have some control over visitors' behaviour. This is also provided for with the provision of byelaw-making powers under Amendment No. 41.

Taken together, the Amendments fulfil the promises we made in Committee, and I hope that they will be acceptable to the House.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 40, in page 19, line 7, leave out "and" and insert: of any waterway or any land held with the waterway, and the use".

No. 41, in line 22, at end insert: and any land held with the waterway, for the preservation of order, for the prevention of damage to land held with the waterway, or anything on or in the waterway or such land, and for securing that persons resorting o the waterway or such land will so behave themselves as to avoid undue interference with the enjoyment of the waterway or land by other persons, including (without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing provisions of this subsection) byelaws".—[Mrs. White.]