EXCHEQUER GRANTS FOR COUNTRYSIDE. (Hansard, 9 April 1968)

§ Mr. MacDermot
I beg to move Amendment No. 71, in page 28, line 16, leave out from 'site' to second 'and' in line 18 and insert: 'provided mainly as a stopping-place for those on their way to or from the place or area where they spend their holidays'.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this Amendment can be taken Amendment No. 72.

MacDermot
These Amendments are an attempt to honour the undertaking that I gave that we would see whether we could find wording which was slightly less restrictive than that at present in the Bill, but which would show that it was intended that these grant provisions should apply to camping sites and caravan sites respectively when they 1306 are used by holidaymakers in transit. It is clear that these grant provisions are for transit sites and that we are not seeking to provide grant for holiday caravan sites.

§ Mr. Channon
I am sorry to delay the House, but I shall not be more than a minute or two.
These Amendments go partially towards meeting the points that I raised in Committee. I have in mind one matter which I should like to raise, and perhaps the Minister could answer it. If not, perhaps he will write to me.
It has been represented to me by people who are responsible in the caravan world that the short-stay transit and touring sites in which they are especially interested are sites which local authorities can provide under Clause 8 in respect of tent sites and Section 24 of the Caravan Sites Act, 1960, in respect of caravan sites. If the sites come within the rather narrow definition of Clause 27 under heads 1, 2 and 3, the local authorities will qualify for 75 per cent. grants.
The Government have expressed the hope that the overwhelming majority of local authority sites provided under these powers will be entrusted to clubs such as the Caravan Club and other reputable clubs of that kind. They could, under Clause 8(3), lease a site to a club or keep more direct control and appoint a club as managers.
Must the local authority bring the site into being on land which it owns or leases, or is it enough to give planning permission to someone else under suitable conditions? Does ensuring that there is provision come within the phrase "provide a site"? Perhaps it does, in the light of Clause 32, which allows a local authority to arrange for facilities to be provided by some other person.
3.0 a.m.
There is considerable doubt about this. There is the added complication that sites provided for caravanners under Section 24 of the Caravan Sites Act would not be facilities provided "under this Act". This question is not academic. The best people to provide many of the required transit sites may very likely be filling stations, hotels, etc., not the local authority, but without the grants there may not be enough inducement. Should it make any difference whether the site is owned by the local authority and run 1307 on a long lease by a club, or is owned and run by a private landowner under conditions laid down in the planning permission, the licence and the handing on of a grant? Either is capable of giving the service the public wants and which the Government say the public should have.
I should be grateful if I could be told at some time, if not tonight, whether the Government's chosen pattern of encouragement through the grants via the local authorities is compatible with the views of the British Travel Association and other experts on how the necessary network should be built up from contributions of many kinds by many kinds of operator. These points are relevant to these Amendments, but the Government may prefer to study what I have said. If so, perhaps the Minister of State would kindly write to me. I should be grateful to receive further information about the caravan Clause, which has caused some complications.

§ Mr. MacDermot
At the least,:here would have to be an agreement between the authority and the owner of the land, but I should like to consider the points the hon. Gentleman has made and write to him about them.