(POWER OF THE MINISTER TO DISPOSE OF GOODS AND, IN CERTAIN CIRCUM STANCES, TO PRODUCE OR MANUFAC TURE THEM OTHERWISE THAN FOR PURPOSES OF HOSPITAL AND SPECIAL IST SERVICES.) (Hansard, 1 April 1968)

§ Mr. K. Robinson
I beg to move Amendment No. 7, in page 23, line 23, leave out 'produce or manufacture such goods' and insert: 'in the case of goods such as aforesaid which are prescribed for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Minister, produce or manufacture them'.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
I suggest that it would be convenient to consider at the same time Amendment 8, in page 23, line 23, after 'goods' insert: 'prescribed by regulations made by the Minister being goods which it appears to him are not readily obtainable from other sources'.

§ Mr. Robinson
The purpose of Amendment No. 7 is similar to that of the Amendment which we have already made in Clause 23, namely, to allay the fears expressed in Committee that the powers conferred by the Clause might at some future time be used in ways which were found objectionable.
In Committee, I promised that I would make a genuine effort to limit the applicability of the Clause, and, having considered various alternatives, I now recommend this Amendment as the most satisfactory solution.
135 The Amendment would make exercise of the powers to manufacture goods in excess of the needs of the Hospital Service dependent on the existence of Regulations which would specify the goods concerned. I repeat that the purpose of the Clause is simply to enable me to respond to requests which I may receive from outside the National Health Service for various types of goods, for example, appliances for the disabled, which are at present, or may in future be, manufactured by my Department or in the Health Service. As the need arises, I shall introduce Regulations specifying any goods for which a demand has arisen and which could best be made by facilities under my control, and these arrangements would accordingly be subject to Parliamentary scrutiny.
Perhaps I might say a word about the parallel Amendment No. 8 put down by the Opposition. I considered other ways of inserting some limitation, and one of these was to provide for regulations based on the criterion adopted in this Amendment. However, I decided that this was not a practicable solution. The difficulties of interpretation imposed by the words "readily available" could be endless and could, conceivably, defeat the whole object of the Clause. For example, there could be no sensible way of describing the type of surgical appliance or component which I might be asked to make available which would distinguish it from similar appliances or components which could be considered to be "readily available" from other sources, within the meaning of the Amendment. The words would impose a limitation which in practice could be unworkable, and I cannot, therefore, recommend the Amendment to the House.
Amendment No. 7 goes as far as I think practicable and, I believe, meets any reasonable anxieties which could arise from the Clause in its present form.

§ Mr. Maurice Macmillan
I do not wish to press the Amendment in my name and that of my hon. Friends. We selected the form of words in it in an attempt to do just what the Minister has done in his Amendment. Our Amendment could leave him as wide powers as his 136 Amendment does, but I accept that if it is interpreted differently, it could be tiresomely restrictive and meaningless. I am grateful for the way in which he has sought to meet, and I hope succeeded in meeting, all reasonable objections which could be had to the Clause and allayed all the fears the industry might have had.
It seems to us on this side of the House that there is almost a curious resemblance between the two Amendments which, even before the debate started, would guarantee that it would end so amicably. I thank the Minister.