HC Deb 01 April 1968 vol 762 cc141-3
Mr. Maurice Macmillan

I beg to move Amendment No. 31, in page 47, line 36, leave out 'he may determine' and insert: 'may be agreed between him and them'. The intention of the Amendment, as its wording makes clear, is to remove what appears to be an anomaly in the wording which gives the Minister power to purchase goods for supply to local authorities and executive councils. In tlie cases covered by subsection (1), the Minister of Health "may", in paragraphs (a) to (e) "purchase and store". Where the matter concerns local health authorities, either for the purposes of Part III of the National Health Service Act, 1946, or for the other purposes mentioned in paragraph (c), the terms on which the Minister may supply to those authorities are referred to in the wording as may be agreed between him and them". The same wording is used for supplying councils of county districts by which the functions of county councils are for the time being exercisable. The wording is again as may be agreed between him and them", and similarly in connection with local education authorities.

The only odd man out, so to speak, is the case covered in paragraph (b), which relates to purchase and store and, on such terms as he"— the Minister— may determine, supply to Executive Councils". It seemed to us that this limited the freedom of executive councils compared with the other bodies to which the Clause refers.

I could, perhaps, anticipate part of the Minister's argument in understanding that executive councils are in some sense his creatures, but not to the same extent as regional boards since they have a measure of independent representation upon them. It seems to us that the criteria which have led the Minister to say that in other cases the terms will be agreed between himself and those whom he is supplying should apply equally in the case of executive councils.

Mr. K. Robinson

I fully appreciate the motives of the hon. Member for Farnham (Mr. Maurice Macmillan) in moving the Amendment, but I do not think that it would be appropriate for a Minister to be put under a statutory obligation to have the agreement of executive councils before he could move in such a matter as is covered by the Clause. Unlike hospital authorities, the councils are not the Minister's agents but, like hospital authorities and unlike the other authorities mentioned in the Clause, they are wholly financed from the Exchequer.

This does not mean that there would not be the fullest consultation between my Department and excutive council interests before any action were to be taken under the Clause. Indeed, there was such consultation leading to agreement when the present arrangements were introduced for councils to supply surgical syringes and needles to general medical practitioners.

8.45 p.m.

There is a practical objection to the Amendment also. Under the other subsections of the Clause I envisage that arrangements might be made from time to time with individual local authorities who wish to take advantage of purchasing arrangements mady by my Department for some particular goods or materials. It is very hard, however, to imagine that executive councils, with a wholly different structure and function, would have anything other than a collective interest in arrangements for supply, and it would be impracticable to consider making separate agreements for each council. I think the hon. Gentleman will see that executive councils cannot be put on a par with local health authorities in this matter, and that such a limitation would be inappropriate. I repeat that of course there would be the fullest consultation in all matters of this kind.

Amendment negatived.

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