HC Deb 27 November 1967 vol 755 cc26-8
38. Dr. Winstanley

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will arrange for Members representing constituencies outside London to have free telephone calls from the House of Commons to exchanges within their constituencies.

Mr. Crossman

This matter was considered by the Lawrence Committee on the remuneration of Ministers and Members of Parliament, and salary levels for Members were introduced following that Report that took account of an element which would enable Members to choose and pay for such facilities as they personally decided best meet their individual needs". These salary levels thus took account of the costs of such matters as telephone calls by Members to their constituencies. I do not think it would be appropriate to re-open the matter at this particular time.

Dr. Winstanley

How can the right hon. Gentleman match that statement with the grossly inequitable position as between hon. Members representing London constituencies, who get full, free telephone service to do their constituency work, and those who represent constituencies outside London, who get none? If hon. Members are to do a decent job they should be given the tools with which to do it.

Mr. Crossman

That may be so, but all I said was that, when the Lawrence Committee reported, it took into account what we would normally call legitimate business expenses and generalised. It could not help, in generalising, being unfair to some hon. Members in some things and to some hon. Members in other things. The Committee said that we should have a sum which was calculated to include such expenses. This may well be out of date or may have been proved anomalous but I was pointing out what the basis of fixing the salary was.

Mr. Heffer

What manager in industry who has to telephone to any part of the country as part of his job pays for the calls?

Mr. Crossman

I think that my hon. Friend has not appreciated what I have already said. For good or ill, the House accepted the findings of the Lawrence Committee, which was asked to look into salaries because, obviously, it is difficult for the House to fix them. One of the clear bases proposed by the Committee for fixing salaries was that they should be all-in and include legitimate expenses. The system may need revision but I must ask hon. Members to realise that this is a funny time to say so.

Mr. Lubbock

When I gave evidence before the Lawrence Committee I suggested differential remuneration for hon. Members living in different parts of the country. Is it not grossly unfair that my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle (Dr. Winstanley) should have to pay for telephone calls to his local authority when I get mine free?

Mr. Crossman

I am aware that the hon. Gentleman gave evidence and that the Committee disregarded it.