HC Deb 07 November 1967 vol 753 cc823-6
7. Mr. Woof

asked the Minister of Power what estimate he has made of the number of persons and their dependants whose livelihood depends on the coal industry, including both workers and their dependants providing goods and services in the coalfields, and workers and their dependants in industries supplying equipment to the mining industry.

Mr. Freeson

The total number of persons employed by the National Coal Board at 31st March, 1967, was 492,400. In addition there were about 5,000 employed in the private sector of the coal industry. Figures are not available of the total number of dependants of people employed in coal mining, nor of the numbers of workers and dependants providing goods and services in the coalfields or engaged in the manufacture of mining equipment; but clearly the total would be considerable.

Mr. Woof

Would not my hon. Friend recognise that there are nearly 3 million people involved in the various categories of that employment? Would he not agree that from the national standpoint something like one out of every 16 men, women and children are directly or indirectly affected by the prosperity of the coal industry? Is not this a serious matter for the Government to consider when framing details of their fuel policy?

Mr. Freeson

As I have indicated, I cannot confirm the figures which my hon. Friend has quoted, although, as I have indicated also, we accept that the figures will undoubtedly be considerable. In reply to the second part of his question, I know that this is a difficult matter, but, as on previous occasions, we assure my hon. Friend, as we assure other hon. Members and people outside the House, that we take very careful account of the effects on the coal industry of changes in the economy and social changes as well.

14. Mr. Eadie

asked the Minister of Power what representation he has had from the National Union of Mineworkers on the future of the mining industry; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mr. Marsh

In arriving at the policy set out in the forthcoming White Paper on Fuel Policy, I have had regard to the views of the National Union of Mineworkers, and the union has been kept informed of the Government's thinking on these matters. The N.U.M.s Economic Committee had a meeting with me only yesterday.

Mr. Eadie

Is my right hon. Friend not ware that yesterday's lobby by the miners was one of the biggest ever held in the country? Is he further aware that unless his Ministry changes its point of view radically there will be a revolt in this Parliament against the Government?

Hon. Members

Oh.

Mr. Marsh

No doubt my hon. Friend will take note of his supporters on the other side of the House. The important point to have quite clear is that the Government are not running down the coal mining industry. In the 1965 White Paper, the estimate for coal consumption by 1970 ranged between 170 million and 180 million tons. Today, by 1967, it is down to something like 165 million tons, with coal stocks of over 27 million tons.

Sir C. Osborne

Why should not coal miners enjoy the benefit of the Government's guarantee of full employment to all workers?

Mr. Marsh

This is a serious problem and, for coal miners, it is a very tragic one. One of the great pities is that we did not look at the contraction of this industry in other fields five or six years ago. [Interruption.] It is not something which has happened overnight. The position at the moment is that coal sales are contracting, and the problem which we face is that we cannot sell coal at these prices on this level of production. As far as I am concerned, I am not prepared to publish figures of coal burnt in which I do not believe.

Mr. William Hamilton

Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that, when and as the industry contracts, the Government will undertake completely the social costs of the distortion of economies in mining areas and not merely the social costs in terms of £ s. d., but ensure that there are jobs available and on time for the men who will be thrown out of work as a result?

Mr. Marsh

The question of alternative work is one for others of my right hon. Friends. On my hon. Friend's first point, in the very near future I shall come to the House with a new Coal Bill which will contain radical provisions for increased Government assistance to the coal mining industry.

Mr. Hooley

Will my right hon. Friend agree that the future of our mining communities, like the future of the rest of us, depends on the exploitation of advanced scientific and technological techniques, and not on clinging to 19th century industries?

Mr. Marsh

To be fair, it ought to be said that there is no union in the country which has co-operated with the advance of technology better than the National Union of Mineworkers.

Sir G. Nabarro

Does the Minister not realise that the National Union of Mineworkers is completely out of step with him in its views on future productivity from the mines? Is it not the fact that Mr. Paynter stated yesterday his interpretation as 120 million tons in 1970 and not 170 million tons, as the Minister has just said?

Mr. Marsh

I do not think that Mr. Paynter said 120 million tons in 1970. I find the hon. Gentleman's rôle of leader of the Worcestershire mineworkers rather a novel one. It is true that we have disagreements with the National Union of Mineworkers, but, on the whole, they are quite reasonable ones. I do not think that there would be much doubt in the minds of its members which lot they would support if it came to it.