§ 22. Sir Ian Orr-Ewingasked the Secretary of State for Defence in preparing his 15 years costing, what overall figure he allowed for the production costs of the Anglo-French variable geometry aircraft.
§ Mr. HealeyMy calculations allowed £500 million to cover the cost of research and development, production, support equipment, spares and operation of the Anglo-French variable geometry aircraft in the period to 1980.
§ Sir Ian Orr-EwingHas the right hon. Gentleman noticed or read the Flighton of his figures? Would it not be better now for the Minister to publish exactly what these two sets of figures contain, because there is a great deal of confusion, not only in the House but in the Press generally?
§ Mr. HealeyI am considering how best to correct the many mistakes in the Flight article, but I can tell House that it was inaccurate in that it ignored the question of the front line and time scale of the various aircraft; it ignored the differences in the capabilities of the two programmes; it ignored the two-year inflation allowance which I had taken account of in the figures that I gave to the House, and it gave far too low a figure for the 15-years' support and operation costs.
§ Mr. LubbockIn making comparisons of this kind, would not the right hon. Gentleman think it of value to use present work accounting techniques, so that the different incidence of expenditure between his own programme and that which might have been adopted by the Conservative Government shows up more readily?
§ Mr. HealeyI did exactly that, although I have often been attacked in the House when I referred to constant prices.
§ Mr. DalyellWill my right hon Friend enlarge on what he said about the difference in capabilities? Perhaps some of us misunderstood.
§ Mr. HealeyAs I have announced in the House, we have no intention of replacing 158 TSR2s by 158 F111 As.
§ 23. Mr. Powellasked the Secretary of State for Defence what was the result of his recent consultations with the French Government about the variable geometry aircraft project.
§ Mr. HealeyProposals for the specification for the Anglo-French Variable Geometry aircraft and the industrial 81 arrangements for carrying out the project are under consideration by both Governments.
§ Mr. PowellDo I take it that the Minister's expectation of agreeing the specification during his meeting this month was disappointed, and that the detailed project studies have not yet been authorised?
§ Mr. HealeyNo, Sir. M. Messmer and I, as Ministers of Defence in our respective countries, reached complete agreement on the specification of the aircraft, the cost of the aircraft and the industrial arrangements for producing the aircraft—but our agreement was ad referendum to the two Governments.
§ Mr. RankinIn view of my right hon. Friend's previous answer, will he make it quite clear that the F111K and the Anglo-French variable geometry aircraft are aircraft with entirely different functons and rôles?
§ Mr. HealeyIt is not the case that the Anglo-French VG and the F111K are cast for entirely different functions and rôles. They have similar rôles, both of strike and reconnaisance, but they have different capabilities. For instance, the AFVG will replace the Buccaneer in the maritime rôle.
§ Sir C. OsborneWhy do all the costs of these aircraft increase so astronomically? What is the cause of this fantastic increase in costs, and what is the right hon. Gentleman doing to protect the taxpayers against them?
§ Mr. HealeyI am glad to be able to tell the House that the cost of the aircraft programme planned by the present Government—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman asked what we had done about it. I would point out that on the F111K we have a fixed price not subject to increased development and research costs which may have taken place in the United States.