§ 11. Mr. Hawkinsasked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what action he proposes to take to slow down the decline in the numbers of agricultural workers to the rate suggested in the National Plan.
§ Mr. John MackieThe reduction suggested in the programme was 140,000 persons by 1970, but no precise annual rates were given. Although about 60,000 people have left since June, 1964, the rate of outflow fluctuates and is now declining. It is too early to say yet what the figure will be by 1970. This year's award gives further substantial resources for expansion in the industry, but it is up to the individual farmer to decide on his labour force.
§ Mr. HawkinsWhilst I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman recognised in his White Paper that output was static because of the labour force's declining, would the Minister tell the House how the Price Review has helped arable farmers and horticulturists, especially those producing root crops, to retain enough farm workers to maintain and increase production from these lands?
§ Mr. MackieI cannot think that my right hon. Friend used the expression which the hon. Member used, that the output was declining because of the reduction in the labour force. We have only to go back over the past 15 years to see that a declining labour force has had almost the very opposite effect in agriculture. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]
§ Mr. GodberThirteen wasted years!
§ Mr. MackieI do not suggest that that was because of the Government or any-once else. It was the farmers that did it. I am sorry, but because of the interruption of the hon. Member's hon. Friends I am not quite sure what the second point was.
§ Mr. HawkinsHow does the Price Review help arable farmers to retain enough farm workers?
§ Mr. MackieThat point was put to me in the hon. Member's area on Monday, when I pointed out that it is amazing what has happened in the past in the mechanisation of dealing with root crops and so on. I do not think that the hon. Member or anyone else would like to predict what mechanisation there may be in the future, when we see raspberry pickers, cauliflower pickers, brussels sprouts pickers and everything else on the stocks at present. I think that the hon. Member is being slightly too pessimistic.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. There are many Questions on the Order Paper and I hope that we can help each other by putting questions and answers briefly.
§ Mr. HazellWould my hon. Friend agree that very largely the cause of the substantial movement from the land has been the low wages and earnings in the industry, that the farmers' representatives on the Agricultural Wages Board could have corrected that position and the increased costs involved could have been taken into account in the Price Review?
§ Mr. MackieI agree that there is nothing to hinder farmers paying what wages they wish to agricultural workers.