HC Deb 08 March 1967 vol 742 cc1533-5

Queen's Recommendation having been signified—

Motion made, and Question proposed, That, for the purposes of any Act of the present Session to make provision with respect to financial assistance towards the provision, acquisition or improvement of dwellings and the provision of hostels, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of subsidies in respect of —

  1. (a) the provision of dwellings by a housing association by means of the conversion of buildings; or
  2. (b) the alteration, enlargement, repair or other improvement of dwellings by a housing association,
in pursuance of arrangements with a local authority under section 121 of the Housing Act 1957 made after the passing of the said Act of the present Session in a case where the building or dwelling in question was acquired for the housing association with a view to entering into, or for the purpose of giving effect to, the arrangements.—[Mr. Greenwood.]

3.45 p.m.

Mr. Speaker

I must announce that I have not selected the Amendment in line 10, after '1957', insert: 'or section 155 of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1966'. It is out of order.

Mr. Gordon Campbell (Moray and Nairn)

This Money Resolution is presumably necessary because of new Clause 1, put down by the Government. I am especially interested because it was in replying to an Amendment which I moved in Committee that the Minister said that the Government proposed to nut down an Amendment at this stage of the Bill to enable housing associations working in improvement and conversion to obtain additional benefits.

I welcomed this proposed move on behalf of my hon. and right hon. Friends, although the Minister did not go as far as we wanted at that time, in making more housing associations eligible for the mortgage option scheme. I presume that the intention behind the Resolution is to enable subsidies to be granted to all such housing associations all over the country. If new Clause 1 is passed, it is the Government's intention, pre- sumably, that housing associations as described, and provided that they are doing the job as described in this sphere, would become eligible for subsidies in this way.

I understand that the payment of grant for costs of acquisition can be carried out in Scotland following Section 62 of the Housing Act, 1964 and that that is why the new Clause refers to English legislation, which is also mentioned in the Money Resolution—

Mr. Speaker

Order. This, I think, is germane to a discussion of the new Clause. All that the hon. Gentleman can do now is talk about the Money Resolution.

Mr. Campbell

I was doing that, Mr. Speaker, but it was because I understood that the Money Resolution had been put down to cover the new Clause that I had to mention it in passing.

I believe that there is a limit to the amount of money which can be provided where payment of grant for costs of acquisition is allowed in Scotland. That limit is £1,400, whereas the limit proposed in the new Clause is £2,000; we are suggesting an Amendment, which will be dealt with later, that that should be increased to £2,500.

Therefore, I simply ask the Government at this stage for an assurance—I do not believe that I would be able to do this in discussion of the new Clause—that it is their intention, under the Money Resolution, to be no less generous towards housing associations in Scotland than they are towards those in England and Wales.

I would ask, secondly, whether it is a fact that this Money Resolution and the new Clause do not need to apply to Scotland for the reason which I have mentioned, and, third, that the Government by Order—I understand that legislation is not required—raise the limit from £1,400 in Scotland to at least a figure—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman can ask only whether all these things are covered by the Money Resolution.

Mr. Campbell

That was exactly my query, Mr. Speaker—I am sorry if I did not put it in the right terms—whether this covers the point that the Government intend to raise the limit of £1,400 to at least the figure intended in England and Wales, if it appears that it is necessary in Scotland or any need arises for it to be done.

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government (Mr. James MacColl)

What the hon. Member for Moray and Nairn (Mr. Campbell) has said is right. This Resolution is to deal with new Clause 1, which is necessary because it was not covered by the original Money Resolution. Without getting into difficulties of order, I cannot answer the hon. Gentleman's other points, but I can assure him that the statutory powers in Scotland already allow for this kind of grant to be made and that there is power in force to adjust in the way proposed under the Money Resolution. Whether or not that power will be used is a matter of policy and not a matter of the finances of the Resolution.

Question put and agreed to.