HC Deb 02 March 1967 vol 742 cc686-7
18. Mr. Fisher

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in the light of the recommendations of the Estimates Committee, he has now had an opportunity to consider the reduction or elimination of the £82 million subsidy for school meals, except in cases of genuine financial need.

Mr. Crosland

I am still considering the recommendation of the Estimates Committee.

Mr. Fisher

In considering this matter, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the 1s. charge has been in existence for about nine years although during that period family incomes, benefits and also the cost of the meals have risen greatly? If the Minister could save even 6d. a meal this might produce £10 million a year, which could possibly be used to implement some of the recommendations of the Plowden Report.

Mr. Crosland

I shall, of course, bear that in mind, together with other considerations. We have, however, to take into account on the other side that there is still strong evidence of perhaps unexpected remaining malnutrition and poverty, particularly among large families.

Mr. Rhodes

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the school meal is the only decent meal that many children receive each day and that any substantial increase in the charge for these meals would be regarded by many hon. Members on these benches as an attack upon the Welfare State and that it would meet bitter hostility on this side, whatever encouragement my right hon. Friend may get from the benches opposite?

Mr. Crosland

I made it clear in reply to the first supplementary question that a great many considerations are involved in this matter, and I shall, I hope, bear all of them in mind. Having, however, been asked by the Estimates Committee to make a special review of this problem, I am bound to do so.

Sir E. Boyle

Is it not rather fantastic that the Government should have cut university building, and should be, as many people feel, dragging their feet on the Plowden recommendations, whilst subsidising school meals to the amount of £82 million equally for everybody? While accepting fully the need to safeguard the nutritional standards of large families and those who are least well off, may I ask the Minister to bear in mind the widespread feeling in the country that Government expenditure should be concentrated on those essential tasks which, if they are not performed by the Government, cannot be performed by anybody?

Mr. Crosland

If the right hon. Gentleman feels as strongly as that, it is very curious that he did nothing about this matter for seven years from 1957 to 1964. What this discussion shows is that there are many conflicting considerations in this matter. It really is not a simple one. There are educational and social considerations of an extremely intricate and important kind. I have no intention of coming to any decision on this matter quickly. When the right hon. Gentleman talks about dragging our feet on Plowden, he will have read the Plowden Report —1,200 pages, two volumes. If he really thinks that it would make sense to come to snap decisions on the Committee's 197 recommendations, he is not being serious or responsible.

Mr. Wallace

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, in considering this matter, he may find that savings of a considerable nature must be found in organisation and distribution of the meals service instead of increasing the charge to the parent?

Mr. Crosland

We shall bear that in mind.