HC Deb 26 June 1967 vol 749 cc40-9

11.57 a.m.

Miss Joan Lestor (Eton and Slough)

I beg to move Amendment No. 2, in page 1, line 13, at end to insert: Provided that without prejudice to the generality of this subsection, Her Majesty may by Order in Council provide for the registration of electors in Bermuda and for the law in regard to the disqualification of candidates for election to the House of Assembly. I do not want to go back on what I said on Second Reading but I want to refer to one or two things I said then because they tie up with the comments made by my hon. Friend the Minister of State when she replied to the debate. The most important point to which I wish again to direct the attention of the Committee is the method of the registration of electors.

It is true, as my hon. Friend said, that the terms of reference given to Mr. Hucks, who was the specialist sent out to Bermuda to try to decide on the best method of registration, were to improve upon the present method rather than to try and change it to the system of automatic registration of electors that we have.

But the point is that he was sent out because of the concern which had been expressed by the P.L.P. in Bermuda about the present method of registration. It claimed that it could not be made to work in the interests of the majority. It was, therefore, the view and the expressed concern of the P.L.P. that a change or investigation into the possibility of a change should take place in order to bring the method of registration into line with that of the British method.

Mr. Hucks was certainly sent to improve on the present method and he made suggestions as to how it could be improved in order to make it possible for more people to be registered. But it will not, of course, make it easier for those with whom we are directly concerned to get registered.

12 noon.

I emphasise the important differences between an automatic system of registration and voluntary system of registration. In this country we have indulged in an automatic system of registration. This is something that is carried out by authority. People are encouraged to register. Forms are sent to them and, if they do not register as an elector, somebody goes to see them and tries to help them register by explaining how to fill in the form and so forth. The fact that penalties for not going on the electoral register still exist, although they may not be used, shows that it is regarded as a right for everyone who can to exercise their vote and to be eligible to exercise their vote.

With a voluntary system of registration it is left with the individual. The individual has to make the effort and, as I showed last week, there is some doubt—I think this is borne out by the figures—whether certain sections of the community in Bermuda, namely, the coloured population, are benefiting from this method of registration.

Last week the Minister said: The figures given in the P.L.P. Memorandum to the Conference show that the two parishes with the smallest number of registered voters, according to the 1966 Register, are Southampton and Hamilton, both of which have coloured majorities."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 19th June 1966, Vol. 748, c. 1060.] This bears out my point. I agree with my right hon. Friend when she said that one does not want this to become a black and white issue. One can in circumstances substitute class for colour, because much of the colour clash is a class clash, and this is what is taking place in Bermuda and in many other parts of the world.

In the two parishes with the smallest number of registered voters with coloured majorities the method of registration militates against the coloured majority or those people who are in a lower social class. The difficulties which they face in trying to register are something that ought to concern us and I would be very pleased to hear my right hon. Friend's comments.

The other important point which was commented on last week and on which we want further clarification relates to candidates, the people eligible to stand. Last week I mentioned a school teacher who voted Conservative when in England, but who had to resign his job as a teacher in Bermuda before he could stand as a candidate. I accept the difficulty that a small country like Bermuda is in, just as one has difficulties here, relating to people employed by a local authority standing for public office. We have this difficulty with our councils where certain people are not eligible to stand, just as certain people are not eligible to stand for Parliament because of the position that they occupy. However, there is a great difference here. In a very small country where the majority of the public servants serve Parliament or are directly connected with Parliament and, therefore, are disqualified from standing as candidates, this tends to militate against a certain class or section of the community.

I am not concerned with colour; I am not particularly concerned with class. I am concerned that certain people are not eligible to stand as candidates. Large sections of people who would be representative of certain interests in Bermuda—bus drivers, pilots, teachers and so forth—are not eligible to stand as candidates. It seems very odd that the director of a bank, who has a far greater connection with the Assembly in Bermuda than perhaps a bus driver would have, can not only stand, but could, under the present arrangements, become a Minister, whereas a bus driver cannot even stand as a candidate.

With all these difficulties, which my right hon Friend referred to last week, I should have thought that there was room for amending at least that part of the Constitution which makes it impossible for a person even to stand as a candidate while, for example, he is a bus driver. It may be that if he becomes elected he would be expected to resign from office, but not to be able to stand as a candidate is something which I think should be looked into.

This ties up with the whole question of the payment of members. If one is to have a truly representative Assembly, as we have here, one has to make it financially possible for people from all sections of the community and all classes, irrespective of colour, to be eligible to stand as public representatives.

The Deputy Chairman (Mr. Sydney Irving)

I think the hon. Lady is going outside the terms of the Amendment in talking about payment.

Miss Lestor

The point is that eligibility for candidature in some sense has a connection with payment. If one is not paid for office then certain people, by virtue of financial difficulties, are disqualified from standing. I had not intended to go outside the terms of the Amendment.

The Deputy Chairman

The hon. Lady may be correct. However, we are not concerned with voluntary disqualification. We are now concerned with what legal disqualification there may be.

Miss Lestor

Many of us who have followed the whole history of the development of Bermuda fairly closely, and particularly the discussions which took place at the Constitutional Conference and the debate which took place here in the last week or so, are very concerned that, whatever Constitution is adopted in Bermuda, it should not be seen to militate against the interests of people either in the method by which they can register in order to vote, because that will determine to some extent who is elected, or against those people who could represent the interests of large sections of the community being disqualified from standing for candidature simply because of the jobs that they hold. These are the two points mentioned in the Amendment which I hope my right hon. Friend will accept.

Mr. James Johnson (Kingston upon Hull, West)

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Eton and Slough (Miss Lestor). Perhaps because of her sex she made a moving appeal, but she is also a Socialist and I want to enlarge somewhat the appeal which she made so well. I also wish to ask a few questions of the Minister.

I must apologise for not being here on Second Reading. I was overseas. I did not, therefore, hear my hon. Friend's winding-up speech, but I have looked very carefully at the OFFICIAL REPORT, so I am well acquainted with what she said and the answers she gave to some of the questions asked on that occasion and which were put in much the same form by my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Mr. Hugh Jenkins).

My hon. Friend the Member for Eton and Slough said that it was difficult under the voluntary system for the less happy members of our society—coloured people perhaps, those with little education, those with a long difficult manual task working at the docks in Bermuda or long hours on the buses—to make sure that they had a chance to vote by going along on the first stage and making sure that they were registered to vote.

It is a very important argument, but, for the life of me, I cannot see why we could not have what is loosely termed the English system. It is my understanding that when Mr. Hucks was chosen it was understood that he would go out and look at the possibilities of having this Colony register on our basis. I may be told later by the Minister that I am asking for the system of an advanced sophisticated urban society, perhaps like London—even my own constituency. I may be told that this is not a territory like Kenya or a similar former Colony with a similar system some years ago at this stage of its evolution. Other examples would be Zanzibar or Somalia.

In former Colonies like Kenya there were enormous areas where large numbers of people lived in tribal societies, unable to speak English and often not even understanding the alphabet in their stage of social, economic and cultural development. I have not been to the delightful island of Bermuda, but I am told that that is not the situation there. Hon. Members opposite, notably the hon. Member for Torquay (Sir F. Bennett), have spoken of the wonderful economy of Bermuda and have told me how wealthy and advanced the people there are, nothing like the backward, simple, primitive societies of Africa with which one may be more familiar. If so, the argument that there cannot be a more advanced system of registration falls to the ground. Another potential snag is missing. In Africa, where people live in the bush, they often do not have postal addresses, but that is not the case in Bermuda where, I am told, every citizen can be located.

The delegates of the Progressive Labour Party made a great impression upon me. I thought that they were good political material, and that view is reinforced by their memorandum. I am told that in Bermuda the manual working-class people do not come forward under this voluntary system in sufficient numbers to approach the 100 per cent. registration which we would have by the English method. This is one of the difficulties which we must attempt to eliminate. There must be no bar to anyone, whatever his job, income, social or cultural position, who wants to cast his vote. People sometimes forget to register—even hon. Members here sometimes forget to fill in their Income Tax forms—and it must be our object, particularly hon. Members on this side of the Committee, to see that the maximum number gets to the poll.

Bluntly, I have always supported the movement of the masses, the dispossessed, the have-nots, the forgotten people, and they must not be electorally handicapped in any way. They are the politically inarticulate, the less fortunate, whom we must help. There must be no hindrance in the way of their being able to vote. In this somewhat unusual Colony, people are much more advanced than was the case in other parts of the old-fashioned Empire which we used to know many years ago.

I have very carefully read my hon. Friend's Second Reading speech. Few of my hon. Friends are happy about the Bill and I wonder whether the Minister herself is entirely happy about it. Knowing her as I do, I think that it might not be fair to ask. I am sure that she would like to get the best possible deal for the people of Bermuda.

12.15 p.m.

On 19th June, my hon. Friend's main argument on this topic of registration and qualification for candidates and the voluntary system appeared to be that in the circumstances this was an advance on the old system. I suppose that it is. I told her predecessor many months ago that the last Constitution dated back to 1620, so there is no need to labour the argument about there being an advance. We were told that this side of the Committee could support the Constitution, with all its snags of registration, at least for an interim period. How long that period will be, I do not know. I gather that there are to be elections in mid-1968. This was sup- posed to be a holding operation. I do not wish to be unfair, but when we were in opposition during the 1950s we constantly heard this argument about an interim period and a holding operation.

The Deputy Chairman

Order. The hon. Gentleman is now discussing the merits of the Constitution. The Amendment deals with two factors—registration and disqualification. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will now relate his remarks to the Amendment.

Mr. Johnson

I was about to quote from the P.L.P. memorandum which is germane to this argument and which describes the system as defective and penalising the working-class electorate, but, in view of what you have said, Mr. Irving, I will not do so.

It gives some interesting percentages of potential electorates. For example, in Appendix I it says that only 61 per cent. of potential electors were registered in Pembroke, North, which contains one-third of the coloured vote of the Colony. That means that 40 per cent. of that one-third will be lost. This is also said to be the case in the smaller constituency of Hamilton, East, where coloured voters are in the majority. I will not weary the Committee with more figures, but there is no denying the P.L.P.'s statement that under the voluntary system nothing like the largest possible number will vote in the elections of mid-1968. Perhaps I shall be able to enlarge on that subject later.

In column 1056, on 19th June, the hon. Lady said that it was necessary to be very clear, and proceeded to "shoot down" the hon. Member for Putney (Mr. Hugh Jenkins). But, if clarity is necessary, how can she, as she did, say that top civil servants in this country are not allowed to stand for Parliament, and then say that they should, by definition, not be allowed to stand in Bermuda?

The other matter of clarity was to do with N.A.L.G.O. We were told that local government officers here were not allowed to stand for municipal office. Where is the analogy between a local government officer and a worker on the docks?

The Minister of State for Commonwealth Affairs (Mrs. Judith Hart)

On that point, I was not seeking to argue particularly the merits of the case. I was merely refuting an allegation made by one of my hon. Friends that anyone could stand in this country.

Mr. Johnson

My hon. Friend went on to say: In such a country as Bermuda, and in a number of dependent [...]ories and new independencies, almost it the public service work is carried out by direct employees of the Government and not by local authority employees. It looks as though the principle in this country that civil servants may not stand for election to the House of Commons is bound to extend."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 19th June, 1967; Vol. 748, c. 1056.] However, my hon. Friend went on, a little later, to give us a glimmer of hope for the future by saying that there was a case for considering whether it might be possible to work out a way of changing the system. Because of that she said, the Bermuda Select Committee was set up.

I have had a look at this Committee. If the two Houses elected at the last elections, on most unfair franchises, now have the majority—and this Committee is set up by that majority—it is understandable that the Committee will be heavily weighted in favour of those who wish to maintain the status quo.

It has always been our experience in overseas colonial territories that those who have the power hang on to it. I will not go on to talk about white settler countries in Africa, particularly one that is giving us trouble north of the Limpopo, but those in power take some shifting. It is understandable that they would attempt to use any lever or mechanism that they can to maintain themselves in power. We asked about the meeting of the U.B.P. and the Opposition party, the P.L.P., who were to consider whether it would be possible to work out a way of changing the system.

We asked about the change of registration and qualifications and were told that there was some hope of something being done. I understand that the majority party, the U.B.P., which forms the dominant segment of the Select Committee, has turned down the P.L.P.'s efforts to get a more lawful and decent set-up. If this is so, and my hon. Friend will correct me if I am wrong, then we are back to where we started, with all the old snags and powers to which we object.

Would my [...]sh. Friend please look at this again? Last week, defending the status quo she chided my hon. Friends by saying: If my hon. Friends are prepared to say that Bermuda should not advance any degree whatsoever along the road to self-government …".—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 19th June, 1967; Vol. 748, c. 1057.] Then she issued a caveat, about the Colony being directly ruled by the House of Commons and civil servants, and asked them to say whether this was what they wanted.

I do not say this. I do not want this Chamber telling people in Bermuda how to manage every jot and tittle, but I do suggest, at this early stage of colonial evolution, after the elections, which followed the ancient Constitution of 1620, that there is a case for a little more invigilation by Westminster, a little more checking of what is happening behind the scenes in Bermuda by the majority party. Both my hon. Friend and I know the history of the masses, and how difficult it is for them to get on top. I have been told that in the Bahamas the Opposition did not get on top. I will not go any further, however, because I see you nodding, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I apologise. I was not indicating anything to the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Johnson

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I thought that you were nodding me down.

May I ask the Minister to look again at the answer she gave to the hon. Member for Glasgow, Woodside (Mr. Carmichael), when he asked about Mr. Hucks' job, and what he would do when he went out to the Colony? My hon. Friend asked about the choice of expert to visit the Colony. I thought that a good deal of his argument was sound and that the Minister dismissed him fairly quickly, by saying that Mr. Hucks had been sent to Mauritius and St. Vincent, and in her opinion was the best possible person.

I am sure that he made a good job and he suggested that there should be more changes to put more voters on the register. I hope that this is so, but how many more? We were told earlier that if, in the past, only 60 per cent. of those eligible had registered, there would now be about 80 per cent. or 90 per cent. of coloured voters in Pembroke, West by this lime.

Mr. Gerard Fitt (Belfast, West)

Mr. Hucks' report says that with the matters which he has now recommended we can look forward to a system entitling at least 70 per cent. of the population to vote. With the improvements which he has recommended to the present system, the franchise has been extended from 64 per cent. to 70 per cent. Would not my hon. Friend agree that this is a good thing?

Mrs. Hart

The average number of electors registered in 1963, according to the P.L.P. Report, was 75 per cent.

Mr. Johnson

I accept the statistics given by both the Minister and my hon. Friend. Without talking in detail about figures it is possible to have a 75 per cent. figure in the territory—

It being half-past Twelve o'clock, The CHAIRMAN left the Chair to report Progress and ask leave to sit again.

Committee report Progress; to sit again Tomorrow.