HC Deb 22 June 1967 vol 748 cc1924-7
6. Mr. Gresham Cooke

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what was the total net increase in 1966 in men, women and children immigrants from India, Pakistan and Jamaica into the United Kingdom.

The Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. David Ennals)

I would refer the hon. Member to Table 2 in the statistics published as Cmnd. 3258.

Mr. Gresham Cooke

Would the Minister agree that Table 2 shows a growing increase in immigrants from these countries? Does it not also indicate that women and children are in a proportion of eight to one with breadwinners and, if that is so, does it not indicate that a large amount of evasion is going on?

Mr. Ennals

No, Sir; that is not the case at all. The reason is that we have strictly limited the number who can come in for employment on vouchers. Most of those now coming in are families. The figures are interesting. From India there were fewer men and fewer women but more children, from Pakistan there were more women and children but more men actually embarked than were admitted, and from Jamaica there were more children and fewer women, and, as with Pakistan, more men embarked than were admitted.

7. Mr. Gresham Cooke

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the difficulties in housing and race relations disclosed in the Political and Economic Planning report, he will not now bring into equal balance immigration and emigration between this country and India, Pakistan and Jamaica for the next five years.

Mr. Ennals

No, Sir. We regulate the rate at which Commonwealth workers come here; but most of those who are admitted for settlement are the dependants of Commonwealth citizens entering the country or already living here, and I do not think it would be right to make the admission of an immigrant's wife and children dependent upon a compensating emigration from this country.

Mr. Gresham Cooke

In view of the obvious difficulties about accommodation and accepting these people agreeably in this country, as disclosed in the P.E.P. report, would it not be kinder now not to raise their hopes but to have a clamp-down on immigration for a few years to allow us to solve our own problems before more of them are admitted?

Mr. Ennals

I can think of nothing that would be more unkind to a man who has settled in this country than to tell him that his wife and children cannot join him, and nothing more unkind to wives and children than to say that they must be separated. I think it would be absolutely wrong to say that women and children could join their husbands in this country only provided that a number of United Kingdom citizens desire to go to their country.

Mr. Hogg

Without dissenting from that last reply at all, is not the right answer to make sure that there is no avoidance in this respect and that persons alleged to be dependants really are dependants, and is not the best way to do that to make sure that they are declared as dependants at the time of the original entry?

Mr. Ennals

There is a problem of evasions, of course. Evasions are dealt with a little later in another Question. There are two types. There are those who claim to be someone they are not or of a different age from that which they are. The immigration officers are careful to try to ensure that there is no evasion. The second type of evasion is by those who are already here as students or visitors and try to stay longer. I assure the right hon. and learned Gentleman that the immigration officers are very careful in these cases. However, in order to remove the sort of difficulties that he has in mind, we are strongly urging those who think they have a right to come to this country to seek an entry certificate so that these questions and uncertainties can be dealt with in advance.

Sir C. Osborne

In view of the disquiet outside this House about the large number of immigrants who have been admitted, can the hon. Gentleman tell the House for how many years he expects the rights of families to come to this country will last?

Mr. Ennals

It is impossible to know this, because there is inevitably a delay between the time when a man arrives here and the time when he becomes settled, is in sound employment and can afford to provide a house to accommodate his family and to bring his family over. This is a perfectly human matter. The hon. Gentleman referred to "feelings'. I think that sometimes the exaggerated statements which have been made by the hon. Gentleman himself have contributed to those feelings.

28. Sir D. Renton

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that in 1965 the net increase of women and children from the Commonwealth amounted to just under 50,000, compared with fewer than 14,000 men, and that in 1966 the net increase of women and children amounted to 45,528, compared with only 5,820 men; whether the disproportionate increase in the numbers of women and children was due to the men resident here having large families before they came or whether it was due to evasions; and whether he will make a statement.

Mr. Ennals

Commonwealth immigrants may wait sometimes before sending for their families, so the numbers admitted as voucher-holders and dependants in any one year are not directly related.

Sir D. Renton

Does the hon. Gentleman recollect that in answer to an earlier Question he said that there were various evasions with regard to families coming in? What has been the extent of those evasions and what will the Government do to prevent the situation from geting out of hand?

Mr. Ennals

As I said in answer to a Question on another occasion, it is impossible to give any figure for evasion. The very fact that people have evaded means that one does not know how many there are. There are two types of evasion. There are those who make a false claim in order to be admitted—the immigration officers are very careful about these—and, secondly, those who try to stay for longer than the period for which they have been admitted. It is clearly shown by the figures that these have been greatly reduced and are now only a few hundred.

Mr. Hogg

Will not the hon. Gentleman seriously consider the suggestion, which has been put to him before, that it would be a means of checking the first type of evasion if the immigrant at the time of entry where to declare the extent of the dependants whom he at that time possessed?

Mr. Ennals

That is a proposal worthy of further consideration, but the right hon. and learned Gentleman would be wrong to think that that would give us the answer to our problem, because very often a man here may not wish to bring over all his family. Nevertheless, it is a proposal which we shall consider again.