HC Deb 20 June 1967 vol 748 cc1582-3
Mr. Allason

I beg to move Amendment No. 44, in page 23, line 17, to leave out 'twenty-five' and to insert 'seven'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Sydney Irving)

We may discuss at the same time Amendment No. 45, in page 23, line 18, to leave out 'those twenty-five years' and to insert 'every seventh year'.

Mr. Allason

This Amendment relates to the conditions of the 50 years extended lease after the original term date of the long lease, in which case the Government have laid down that there shall be one rent review after 25 years. Ground rents are customarily settled for long periods, but upon a basis which has now gone. The basis was that there was a benefit to be acquired by the landlord at the end of the lease. Now, however, we have to consider a simple lease of a piece of land, and a rent review after 25 years takes no account of the fall in the value of money during that time. One rent review after 25 years is quite inadequate, and there should be a review every seven years.

On a similar Amendment in Committee, the Parliamentary Secretary said: … one cannot always hope by legislation, particularly in matters of this kind, to insulate some members of the community from all changes in the value of money over very long periods. This is something which no Government and no legislation can do."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, Standing Committee B. 2nd May, 1967; c. 509.] But, of course, this is not what was being asked. Here the Government are making provisions not to insulate people, which is very different.

Mrs. White

I am afraid that we cannot accept the Amendment, because we do not believe that this is a reasonable suggestion. When the matter was discussed in Committee there was another aspect—the question of the increase in costs and services. That is dealt with in Amendment No. 46, which makes clear that we feel a certain sympathy on that aspect. But we do not think that to revise a ground rent every seven years makes sense. Property owners should be able to foresee conditions for 25 years ahead we are not suggesting that they should crystal-gaze for as long as 50 years. Therefore, the suggestion is that, if the landlord wishes, there should be a break halfway through the 50-year extension. If the lease is extended it is at a modern ground rent, so that there is revision. It is not at the old ground rent: that is fully understood. We do not think that there is any convincing reason for ground rent, as opposed to rack rent, being subject to alteration every seven years.

Amendment negatived.

Mr. Wiley

I beg to move Amendment No. 46, in page 23 to leave out lines 30 to 41, and insert: (2A) Where during the continuance of the new tenancy the landlord will be under any obligation for the provision of services, or for repairs, maintenance or insurance, the rent payable in accordance with subsection (2) above shall be in addition to any sums payable (whether as rent or otherwise) in consideration of those matters or in respect of the cost thereof to the landlord; and if the terms of the existing tenancy include no provision for the making of any such payments by the tenant, or provision only for the payment of a fixed amount, the terms of the new tenancy shall make, as from the time when rent becomes payable in accordance with subsection (2) above, such provision as may be just for the making by the tenant of payments related to the cost from time to time to the landlord, and for the tenant's liability to make those payments to be enforceable by distress, re-entry or otherwise in like manner as the liability for the rent. The Amendment is to meet a point raised by both the hon. Member for Crosby (Mr. Graham Page) and my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Dulwich (Mr. S. C. Silkin). The point is similar to that which I mentioned on an Amendment to Clause 4.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Wiley

I beg to move Amendment No. 47, in page 24, to leave out lines 16 and 17 and insert: 'the sums payable to the landlord in respect of the house and premises (after making any necessary apportionment) for rent and matters referred to in subsection (2A) above fall short in total of the sums that would have been payable for rent and matters so referred to under the new tenancy,' The Amendment is consequential to the previous Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.