§ 52. Mrs. Joyce Butlerasked the Minister of Health if he will take steps to ensure that the Medical Research Council's advice in regard to experiments on patients is brought to the attention of hospital management bodies and staffs.
§ Mrs. ButlerSince my hon. Friend apparently does not think it worth while to draw the attention of hospital authorities again to this circular despite the fact that Dr. Pappworth cites in his book a number of cases which have been very disquieting which have taken place since the last circular was issued, does not my hon. Friend think that he owes it to the public to hold a full inquiry into these cases and others which have come to light since the book was published?
§ Mr. SnowThe comprehensive guidance issued by the Medical Research Council in 1964 is, so far as we are aware, fully understood by the profession. My right hon. Friend is not aware of any evidence that this guidance has not been followed since the circular was issued in September, 1964. The figures given by Dr. Pappworth in his book are extremely misleading about people in this country. For example, out of a total of 206 cases mentioned, 125 refer to countries other than the United Kingdom, mostly the U.S.A. I shall be pleased to give my hon. Friend a breakdown of the remaining figures, which do not justify the sort of criticism which Dr. Pappworth made.
§ Dr. David KerrWill my hon. Friend go a little further and give some little reassurance to the public which has been justifiably alarmed by reports in Dr. Pappworth's book? Will he assure the public that the research which goes on in the National Health Service is conducted in a responsible and humane way with every consideration for the patient's safety and welfare?
§ Mr. SnowI have no doubt that my hon. Friend, who is a member of the profession, will have read this circular 1119 and that he will agree that there does not seem to be much room for improving on it. A resolution is being submitted to the B.M.A. Conference to have this matter looked at again. Speaking personally, my interest in this book lapsed when I saw that Dr. Pappworth was equating British doctors with Nazi concentration camp doctors.
§ 55. Mr. Crouchasked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement regarding experiments on patients in National Health hospitals.
§ Mr. SnowI would refer the hon. Member to my right hon. Friend's reply on 31st May, and to mine on the 12th June to my hon. Friend the Member for Wood Green (Mrs. Joyce Butler).—[Vol. 747, c. 35; Vol. 748, c. 21.]
§ Mr. CrouchIs the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there is considerable public concern about the question of experiments on patients in hospitals? I was hoping that he would make a statement this afternoon giving the House some assurance, either as to the figures or that such experiments were not taking place.
§ Mr. SnowThe hon. Gentleman will have heard my answer to the Question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Wood Green (Mrs. Joyce Butler). This gives me the opportunity to elaborate on the breakdown of the cases referred to by Dr. Pappworth in his book. As I have already said, of 206 cases quoted 125 referred to countries outside the United Kingdom. Three referred to Scotland, and 78 to England and Wales. Only six of these 78 apparently took place after 1963—bearing in mind that the advice to the profession was given in 1964—and only two appear, from an examination of the dates on which the experiments were reported, to have been carried out since the guidance was issued in September, 1964. Both these cases were with the consent of the patients concerned.
§ Mr. Maurice MacmillanCould the Parliamentary Secretary also reassure the House on a matter on which there is some misunderstanding? Will he confirm that patients in teaching hospitals cannot be used for demonstration purposes if they do not wish to be so used?
§ Mr. SnowThis is certainly the case, and the provisions of our guidance adequately cover that point.