HC Deb 15 June 1967 vol 748 cc749-51
9. Mr. Brooks

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will give details of those schools for mentally-handicapped children in which corporal punishment is administered; and if he will make a statement.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

This information is not available. My right hon. Friend will consider the use of corporal punishment in special schools when he considers the revelant recommendations of the Plowden Committee and the comments from bodies representing the local education authorities and the teachers. I am also considering the use of corporal punishment in independent schools in my Cholderton College Inquiry.

Mr. Brooks

Does my hon. Friend appreciate that a disturbing, if isolated, case in Liverpool recently indicates that, although that case may well be exceptional, the law needs strengthening in this respect? Will she now give instructions or guidance to local authorities in dealing with this rather specialised aspect of the general problem?

Mrs. Williams

The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is that, in the light of the recommendations from the authorities and from the teachers' organisations, we have already said that we shall announce our conclusions about corporal punishment. As regards the special case which my hon. Friend has in mind. I understand that Liverpool Education Committee is at present discussing the whole question of the use of corporal punishment in its area and the present rules concerning it with the local associations of teachers.

23. Sir C. Osborne

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science, in view of the fact that only two delegates out of 500 at the National Association of Headmasters' Conference at Harrogate voted to abolish corporal punishment in schools, what action he now proposes to retain this form of punishment; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Crosland

I am aware of the views of the National Association of Head Teachers. But, as I have already said in reply to an earlier Question, I am not yet ready to make a further statement on the recommendations of the Plowden Report.

Sir C. Osborne

Since the headmasters are speaking from experience—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—since the headmasters are speaking from experience, and since they have the support of the majority of people in this country, will not the Minister act on their advice?

Mr. Crosland

They may have the support of a number of people in the country. They certainly do not have my support. I have said again and again that my personal view is the same as that of the Plowden Committee. The only practical question which we have to decide, in view of the fact that corporal punishment in the schools is on the decrease in any case, is whether to ban it by law will help or hinder the process.

Mr. Whitaker

As every country in Europe, if not in the world, other than Britain, has stopped this medieval practice, does not the Question merely show the need for retraining 498 headmasters? Would my right hon. Friend bring our schools into line with our Prison Department?

Mr. Crosland

I certainly would not like to take on the task of retraining all the head teachers in Britain. I am aware of the facts to which my hon. Friend draws attention; they were discussed in detail in the Plowden Report. From my point of view, the only question is what best will help the process which is already under way.

38. Mr. Hector Hughes

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if, in view of the fact that corporal punishment does not inculcate either good behaviour or intellectual progress, he will take steps to ensure that it is abandoned in schools under his authority, and that where a penalty for misbehaviour is merited there is substituted for corporal punishment as a penalty extra intellectual study appropriate to the course of the particular student followed by an essay on that subject within a limited period.

Mr. Crosland

As I have said in reply to an earlier Question, I am not yet ready to make a general statement about corporal punishment in schools. In any case I should not want to prescribe particular forms of alternative punishment.

Mr. Hughes

Would the Minister agree that if duress is exercised upon misbehaving students it should take the form of encouraging them to further study in the way indicated in my Question by getting them to do extra work in their own time?

Mr. Crosland

I realise that if corporal punishment were to be abolished alternative penalties would have to be found. But I do not regard it as part of my responsibility to lay down whether this should be essays on a particular subject or anything else. I have enough difficulty with my own children without taking on the country's children.

Mr. John Hall

Would the Minister resist the suggestion, because to impose this savage punishment inflicts a greater burden both on the student and on the teacher?

Mr. Crosland

And, I may add, on parents very often.