HC Deb 07 June 1967 vol 747 cc1030-3
9. Mr. Peter Walker

asked the Minister of Transport what is her estimate of the deficit of British Railways for the current financial year.

66. Mr. Edward M. Taylor

asked the Minister of Transport what estimate she has made of the deficit which will be incurred by British Railways in the current financial year.

Mrs. Castle

It is too early to give a firm estimate of the probable deficit, for this year, but among other things receipts from freight traffic have declined, and in consequence it it likely to be higher than in 1966.

Mr. Walker

Is the Minister aware that the estimate that the deficit will be more than £135 million will be treated with deep concern in the country? In view of recent articles in the Sun, Sunday Times and other newspapers pointing to specific examples given by railway officials of gross over-manning, will she take urgent steps to look into at least all these examples?

Mrs. Castle

It is true that we must have a progressive streamlining of manpower in the railways, but the hon. Gentleman is being a little unfair as there has been no less than a 32 per cent. reduction in staff since 1962. No one can deny that the railway industry and railway workers have accepted a pretty drastic streamlining as part of modernisation. We should thank them for the way in which they have done that.

Mr. Edward M. Taylor

Does that answer mean that the deficit, which has increased in each of the last three years, is now getting out of control? Has the Minister abandoned all hope of eliminating this huge drain on the economy?

Mrs. Castle

I do not know what the hon. Gentleman means by "getting out of control". The deficit under the Conservative Government in 1963 was £134 million.

Mr. Francis Noel-Baker

Would not my right hon. Friend wish to congratulate the railway unions and workers on the way in which they have taken the cuts in personnel? Further, can she say what proportion of British Railways freight traffic consists of coal and iron ore and by how much has this declined during the current year?

Mrs. Castle

I entirely agree. Hon. Members opposite do not help towards happy industrial relations by constant sniping at the railway workers, who have had to face these reductions but have done so in a very patriotic spirit. They realise very well that there will have to be more streamlining still if we are to make this industry give a proper standard of life.

The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is 61 per cent. There has been a reduction in coal freight traffic systematically over the last few years. This is continuing and has added greatly to the difficulty.

Mr. Manuel

Has the liner train service continued to expand? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that this growth point is one that could replace the loss of traditional traffic?

Mrs. Castle

I entirely agree. It is our aim to promote the freightliner traffic as much as possible. There has continued to be an encouraging growth. Whereas in January the railways were carrying 1,200 containers a week, the figure is now over 1,800. We are planning a great expansion of the terminals.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

As the deficit is higher than the cost of taking 6d. off the Income Tax, which the Chancellor of the Exchequer refused us last night, can the right hon. Lady at least give an undertaking that the deficit will be substantially reduced in future years?

Mrs. Castle

In the Joint Steering Group studying future financial prospects and developments, we have the best instrument for years for enabling us to tackle the deficit in an imaginative and constructive way.

Mr. Mapp

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that at least two-thirds of the deficit is due entirely to social costs, which should be borne in mind when considering the deficit?

Mrs. Castle

There are Questions later about the social cost element of railway traffic.

Mr. Ron Lewis

What has been the increase in passenger receipts? Is it in any way due to electrification?

Mrs. Castle

I am glad to be able to tell the House that there has been an encouraging increase in passenger receipts. In 1966, they were £6 million higher than in 1965 and are up by another £1 million in the first four months of this year compared with the corresponding period last year. I cannot say exactly what proportion of this is due to electrification but we have all welcomed the success of the electrified service.

Mr. Peter Mills

Will the right hon. Lady bear in mind that the deficit could be considerably reduced if the British Railways Board tried to win back the meat and milk carrying trade which it lost to road transport, particularly in the South-West, solely through inefficiency?

Mrs. Castle

The recent news that British Railways has won a £500,000 contract for moving meat from Aberdeen is a sign that it is developing all the possibilities in this direction. This is one of the encouraging prospects which come from the development of the freightliner system.