National Minimum Wage (Hansard, 5 June 1967)

§ 28. Mr. Gwilym Roberts
asked the Minister of Labour what plans he has for introducing a national minimum wage; and whether he will make a statement.

§ 1. Mr. Marquand
asked the Minister of Labour whether he will publish a White Paper setting out Her Majesty's Government's policy with regard to a possible national minimum wage.

§ Mr. Gunter
I have no plans at present to publish a White Paper. On the general question I would refer my hon. Friends to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Mr. Winnick) on 10th April, 1967.

§ Mr. Roberts
Does not my right hon. Friend agree with me that setting a pattern of living and earnings is the very cornerstone on which a successful prices and incomes policy can be built?

§ Mr. Gunter
It may well be the cornerstone, but there are many difficulties in putting the cornerstone up. My hon. Friend knows very well that we have been talking for many years about a minimum wage, but when I come to discuss it with my colleagues in industry, will there be the greatest act of voluntary discipline ever recorded in industry so that when the minimum rate goes up there will be no request for the maintenance of differentials? If so, we shall get somewhere.

§ Mr. Shinwell
Why does my right hon. Friend reject the possibility of introducing legislation for a national wage policy based on a national minimum wage? Can he resurrect the Cabinet paper introduced by myself in 1946, and again in 1947, for a national wages policy? In order to inform hon. Members on the subject, will he ask the Prime Minister to arrange for these Cabinet papers to be placed in the Library of the House?

§ Mr. Gunter
I should not like to answer the last part of the Question. I do not know enough about it. But I have not rejected the idea of a minimum wage. I do not know whether I am right in revealing it, but I have seen the very valuable paper submitted by my right hon. Friend in 1947. I am trying to point out that this must be a matter of discussion and debate in industry so 615 that we may arrive at certain conclusions as to the effect of the maintenance of a minimum wage. I agree in principle with my right hon. Friend, but I have some doubt at the moment whether the minimum standard of living—if that is what we are concerned with—might not be better dealt with through social measures.

§ Mr. McNamara
Does not my right hon. Friend agree that recent efforts made by the T.U.C. are towards the establishment of a national minimum wage based on £15 a week? Before we can arrive at a proper scheme of differentials for experience and qualification, we have to have some minimum on which to base it. Does he not agree that any social security scheme might well be ruined if we do not have a national minimum on which to base it?

§ Mr. Gunter
I remind my hon. Friend that the debate is going on and that there is great controversy about this matter within the trade unions themselves. It does not need me to remind him that the craft unions have a different view from that of the industrial unions. This debate is going on, and it is my opinion that we shall arrive at a conclusion at some time, but there are an awful lot of difficulties in the way.

§ Mr. Emrys Hughes
On a point of order. In view of the fact that both the Minister and my right hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) quoted or summarised a Cabinet paper, are we not all entitled to know the contents of that paper?

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Member no doubt noted how the Minister ducked the question.