HC Deb 02 June 1967 vol 747 cc540-8

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Armstrong.]

4.3 p.m.

Mr. Denis Coe (Middleton and Prestwich)

I introduce this debate very conscious that I am not really adequate fully to understand all the problems of blind people. But the problem of blindness is one about which we are all concerned, and with 100,000 people on the Blind Register it is of great importance in our society.

The feeling of being cut off from ordinary life is perhaps emphasised by the fact that about 75 per cent. of blind people are over the age of 60. Many have become blind later in life and have been used to doing things for themselves. They are unlikely to be able to read Braille; I understand that only one-fifth of blind people are able to do so. That means that those who become blind later in life are not only dependent in the physical sense on other people, but in some ways are also unable to partake in cultural and educational opportunities open to those who have mastered Braille, or who have a job.

However, it is my intention this afternoon to concern myself solely with one of the points about blind people's physical dependence. My concern is to make it easier for them to distinguish tinned foodstuffs by a recognisable form of embossing on tins.

Shortly after my election to this House, I was contacted by a young constituent who is blind and who, for a considerable time, had been writing to firms putting this problem to them. She enlisted my aid and I carried on the various probes which she had been making. I contacted my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary; and I should like to express my thanks to him for his sympathetic approach. Because of the replies which we received from a number of firms, I was persuaded that this was a matter on which Parliamentary discussion would be valuable.

Those who have the blessing of sight do not always recognise, perhaps, the extent to which this problem affects blind people. It must be recognised that more and more foods are packaged and canned, and this increases the degree of difficulty for blind people in identifying goods. There is also the concentration of canning and manufacture among a few firms, which cannot possibly know where all the various products go once the tins leave the factory.

Again, as the number of old people increases, unhappily it would seem likely that the number of blind people will increase. We have also to recognise that the greater mobility of families means that there will be less inter-family dependence, with the obvious difficulties that this will imply for blind people.

To meet some of these difficulties, I put forward the proposition that blind people could be more independent of others and have a sense of confidence, perhaps, in their own homes if they could readily identify tinned goods by some form of embossing. I realise that a number of difficulties are implicit in this suggestion. First, because of the centralisation of the manufacture of tins, there is difficulty in knowing exactly what produce will go into the various tins when they leave the factories. Again, many tinned foods are imported and, therefore, any control of embossing would again be extremely difficult.

It has also been pointed out to my constituent that some tins are lacquered on the inside and that if they were to be embossed this might cause a fracturing of the tins and discoloration of the produce inside. There is also the problem of cost of new machinery for embossing. Finally, some manufacturers argue that the size of the tins is not large enough to enable words of suitable size to be embossed on the top of a tin.

I accept that those are all formidable difficulties, but it is important to consider the present position in regard to the embossing of tinned goods. I do not wish in the House to advertise any par- ticular product, but hon. Members might be able to recollect a soothing drink which has the full name of the product embossed across the lid of the container. The lettering, my constituent tells me, is of a size which she is easily able to identify.

Much more commonly, firms emboss their tins according to a series of codes which they have evolved. This arrangement varies from one firm to the next. I understand that the information which is usually conveyed is the time and place of packaging and a sign to show the nature of the produce inside the tin. That sort of information is required by the manufacturers for their own stock and quality control.

Several firms sent Miss Pringle, my constituent, details of their coding. One firm pointed out that it put four or five characters on its cans to signify the day, month and year of packing, together with a number to signify the nature of the product—for example, the number 26, denoting garden peas. If one knows this, one is part of the way to knowing the nature of the goods of the firms in question. Another one point out that "V. V. P" means processed peas, that "P" means garden peas, and that "BB" means broad beans, and so forth. There is considerable variation from one firm to the next.

This, then, is the situation about embossing so far as firms carry it out at the moment. How can blind people cope with this difficulty? First, I understand that they can obtain from the Royal National Institute for the Blind special adhesive strips which can be marked with a Braille frame and stick these on to the various canned goods they buy. This means regularly ordering such stickers. It means that many people who cannot read Braille will find this very difficult, though I have no doubt that they could find their own ways of making signs for their stickers, but in any case it requires regular help from someone else.

Then again, of course, the stickers may steam off in the kitchen if they are kept for any length of time. And what a time-consuming operation. Tins of food are, after all, transient items: here today, and consumed tomorrow. The alternative for them is to rely on the help of others, and I cannot help feeling that these methods are very unsatisfactory.

I should like to turn to my suggestions. May I say, in passing, that I understand that this problem was discussed last year by the Fruit and Vegetable Canners' Association and that it suggested the solution which I have been discussing. I want to say immediately, in trying to suggest helpful ways in which we can solve this problem, that legislation is certainly not the answer. Ideally, of course, I would like to see a number of firms follow the example of the firm I mentioned earlier and emboss the description of the contents on the lid of the can. I hope that any firms which are considering changing their system of embossing and installing new machinery will consider the possibility of doing this.

Failing that, and being realistic, I appreciate that such a solution could not be universal. Is it not possible that a simplified, universal code could be evolved which all canners could use? Indeed, in some of the letters which came to my constituent this possibility was raised by people who wrote back to her from these firms.

This brings me to ask a number of questions of my hon. Friend. Would it be possible, may I ask, for the Food Research Advisory Committee, which the Minister of Agriculture reconstituted in April this year, to examine this problem? After all, its terms of reference were to keep under review those food problems requiring investigation or research; to advise on the appropriate organisations to carry out such research … with a view to the better co-ordination of activities in the field of food research ". I should like to see this body carry out a survey of the major firms which produce canned goods, to find out what variations actually exist in the embossing of canned goods and how far these firms would co-operate in improving the present situation. I wonder, also, whether it could consult firms on the possibility of evolving a simplified code for describing the contents of the tins. Again, I think that it would be very helpful if it could carry out a limited experiment with blind people to find out the size and type of lettering possible on a range of tinned goods so that it could advise firms willing to co-operate.

Finally, may I ask whether, if any favourable results were to flow from this type of investigation, my hon. Friend's Ministry would be prepared to follow it up by informing blind people of the improved situation, and try to help them to master any coding which possibly might be evolved? My own feeling is that if we are to have real progress in a matter of this kind the co-ordination and the initiative must come from the centre.

The Minister has been most sympathetic to my representations, as I have said. I believe that he could make some headway on the lines that I have suggested. On the basis of replies which I have had and on my own observation, I am persuaded that, given a lead, many firms would co-operate in trying to find a more satisfactory situation than exists at the moment. In doing so, they would make the small contribution to help those people in our society who have lost the precious gift of sight.

4.15 p.m.

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. James Hoy)

I am sure that the House will be grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Middleton and Prestwich (Mr. Coe) for initiating this debate, because it draws attention to one of the human problems with which we are confronted. I hope that some of the difficulties which face blind people who live and shop alone can be reduced. However, this is a problem which can only be solved by action other than Government action which might be helpful. As my hon. Friend said, it is not one to which the Government can find a solution, because it cannot be done by way of legislation. It needs to be tackled by those organisations with special responsibility for the blind and by those engaged in food distribution who are willing and able to help. I am glad to say that many are helping a great deal already.

Perhaps I might begin by stating the problem as it was first put to me by my hon. Friend in correspondence. My hon. Friend's constituent found that she could not tell what the contents of a can were without opening it. She noticed that the lids of some cans had embossed markings on them, and she suggested embossing the lids of all cans with capital letters for the benefit of those blind persons who cannot read Braille, and those people whose sight is failing. This no doubt appeared to be a fairly simple solution to a difficult problem.

The problem of not knowing what is in a packet of food is not of course confined to cans; there are bottles, cartons, and many other containers, and recently we have seen the introduction of plastics. These were not mentioned, possibly because there were thought to be practical difficulties.

I do not think that we should overlook that this problem is not confined to food in cans or tins, and there are practical difficulties in the case of all these containers.

My hon. Friend has raised the question of embossing cans which contain food because he believes this to be a practical proposition. I am sorry to have to say that this is not so. Only some blind persons can read Braille, and capital letters would therefore have to be used.

The Royal National Institute for the Blind suggests that capital letters half an inch high would be necessary for identification by touch. These letters would, of course, have to be raised very significantly above the main surface of the can.

Embossing which met these requirements would be different from the type which already appears on some cans, and which led my hon. Friend's constituent to take up this matter. These code marks are embossed letters and figures which some manufacturers place on their cans so as to identify the date and place of production, and, in some cases only, the contents of the can.

Some manufacturers have been willing to inform blind persons of this coding when it would be meaningful to them. I welcome this and hope other manufacturers will follow their lead.

The point is that this type of embossing can be quite small, and need only be just sufficiently raised above the surface of the can to enable identification to be made in the exceptional circumstances which may require it. This simple type of embossing can be done without affecting the strength of the can or damaging the lacquer, and these were two dangers which my hon. Friend realised in the course of his speech. I am advised that this would not be the case with capital letters specially embossed to help the blind. In such cases the strength of the can might well be adversely affected.

Moreover, many of the names used to describe food are long. Unfortunately, very few of them are short. The diameter of the type of container most commonly used for canned foods is 2†1/6 ins., but for various technical reasons the space available for embossing is only about 1⅛ ins. in diameter. This would accommodate four or five capital letters at the most—not even enough even if one thinks of the most common things in use, such as baked beans, or tomato soup. There just would not be space for them, and no doubt the manufacturer would be a little disappointed if he could not have his brand name included. These are the practical difficulties.

There are hundreds of different foods in cans, and there are as many manufacturers. Nor must we overlook our large imports of food. Often in these cases English is not the normal language of commerce, and we cannot insist that such cans should be embossed. This was another point which my hon. Friend appreciated—the tremendous amount of food which we import.

For all those reasons, I must, therefore emphasise that it is not practicable to think in terms of embossing the name of the food, and I do not think that a code to cover all names of food would be practicable either. I should also point out that any such proposal would be very costly, and I do not think that this aspect should be forgotten. Indeed, I think that this was one of the difficulties which my hon. Friend referred to when he spoke about the special measures which might have to be taken to deal with this.

This problem is best tackled at the point of sale with the help of the shopkeeper and shop assistants, and with the aid of a system which has been developed by the Royal National Institute for the Blind. It has devised a system of self-adhesive plastic labels which can be embossed in braille or in script with the name of the food, or an abbreviation which is known to the purchaser.

The co-operation of the shopkeeper is essential, as these labels must be stuck on the can or container at the time of purchase. My hon. Friend will know that the Supermarkets Association has expressed its willingness to do all that it can to help blind persons to shop. I hope that all other organisations, and indeed all shopkeepers and their assistants, will now learn how valuable this help would be, and I am sure that they will all be very pleased to do all they can to assist the blind shopper.

This debate has called attention to the need to help blind persons when they are shopping. Although there are about 100,000 blind persons in the country, we believe that only about 30,000 of them will be doing their own shopping. For each of these 30,000 shopping can be made easier by the help and thoughtful-ness of those in the shops. Many are already giving this help. When a blind person asks for it to be done, I hope that the help given will extend to the use of the R.N.I.B. labels to identify food purchases so that they can be easily recognised at home.

My hon. Friend said that perhaps the Food Research Advisory Council could look into this problem. I am willing to consider this suggestion and see whether anything can be done about it. If the Council can look into it they will obviously want to consult the firms that my hon. Friend mentioned.

I cannot foresee the outcome, and whether or not anything can be done; but if it can be done I am sure that it will be. I had better leave it there for the moment. If, from any research, good results should flow, my Ministry would want to take advantage of the fact and to disseminate any information and give what help it can.

This has been an interesting little debate, and I am sure that as a result all those concerned with food distribution will be made aware of the problem facing blind persons and that they will do all they can to help. In the meantime, I once more express my thanks, and the thanks of the House, to my hon. Friend for raising this problem so pointedly. Perhaps by doing so he will bring it to the attention of shopkeepers throughout the country and, as a consequence, worthwhile action may follow.

Mr. Eric Ogden (Liverpool, West Derby)

I do not think that it will be thought amiss if, in this debate, I should thank my hon. Friend the Member for Middleton and Prestwich (Mr. Coe) for introducing the debate, and my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary for the sympathetic hearing he has given to it. It would also be appropriate if someone mentioned the constituent in Middle-ton and Prestwich who stated this.

Parliament is sometimes thought of as a remote place, but this was a lady, living a fair distance away from the House, who started something. She was not a member of a large pressure group, or a massive capitalist organisation or an industrial organisation, but from her initiative started a trend of events which led to the Floor of the Palace of Westminster, and that lady should be congratulated on her initiative in this matter.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-six minutes past Four o'clock.