HC Deb 26 July 1967 vol 751 cc885-6

Lords Amendment: No. 100, in page 43, line 22, at the end insert new Clause "O":

"O.—(1) Where the Secretary of State, in the case or a person serving a sentence of imprisonment, corrective training or preventive detention in Scotland, is of the opinion that in the interests of security or of public safety that person ought to be transferred to a prison in England and Wales, he may make an order for his transfer to that prison: Provided that the Secretary of State may at any time make an order for the transfer of that person back to prison in Scotland.

(2) A person transferred to England and Wales or transferred back to Scotland under this section shall be treated for all purposes as if he had been transferred to England and Wales or, as the case may be, Scotland under section 26 of the Criminal Justice Act 1961."

Mr. Buchan

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

It may be useful if I say a word or two by way of explanation.

This Amendment will enable the Secretary of State to transfer a prisoner serving a sentence in Scotland to England or Wales where this is necessary in the interests of security or public safety. It also provides for the prisoner to be returned to Scotland should it prove to be desirable.

In the Mountbatten Report, it was recommended that a purpose-built prison was required for those prisoners who must in no circumstances be allowed to get out. whether because of the security considerations affecting their conviction, or because their violent behaviour is such that mem- bers of the public or the police would be in danger of their lives. The Report went on to suggest that the use of such a type of prison by prisoners of the higher security category from Scotland should be considered.

I recognise that, wherever possible, prisoners of Scottish origin and convicted in Scottish Courts should be retained in Scotland. I am also fully aware of the need to ensure that prisoners who are a danger to security or to public safety must not be allowed to escape. The number of prisoners in Scotland at present falling within the highest security category is less than six.

To attempt to provide a maximum security institution in Scotland for such a small number would be tantamount to condemning these prisoners to solitary confinement. Men confined under such circumstances and in such small numbers would live such a limited and inbred existence that the situation would soon become intolerable. Therefore, because of the recommendation in the Mountbatten Report and notwithstanding the difficulties over visits and other matters which we prepared to face up to, we have come to the conclusion that the best solution is often to make use of the maximum security prison which is to be built on the Isle of Wight. I have no reason to think that the number of Scottish prisoners requiring such maximum security will ever be very high, and I cannot foresee the day when the provision of a sepal ate maximum security establishment in Scotland would be justified.

The transfers will only take place by agreement between my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.

This is a small but necessary Amendment which I hope will be accepted.

Question put and agreed to.