HC Deb 12 July 1967 vol 750 cc795-7
3. Mr. Kenneth Lewis

asked the Minister of Transport why she authorised an increase in capital spending of £6 million by the Transport Holding Company in 1966; and why she has reduced the amount of the revenue surplus payable to the Exchequer by nearly £2 million.

The Minister of Transport (Mrs. Barbara Castle)

I was satisfied with the Transport Holding Company's commercial judgment that the level of capital spending proposed for 1966 was justified by the future prospects of the business. The revenue surplus in 1966 was affected by general economic circumstances, and I considered it reasonable that this should be reflected by a reduced payment to the Exchequer and by reduced retentions by the Holding Company group.

Mr. Lewis

Does the right hon. Lady accept that if she encourages the commercial judgment of the Transport Holding Company into operating with free enterprise, this will increase the profitability of the Holding Company and, therefore, increase her revenue and reduce the Ministry's commitments?

Mrs. Castle

I am frequently in touch with the Transport Holding Company about its proposals. On the whole, I think its commercial judgment is to be relied upon.

Mr. George H. Perry

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that it is a good thing to expand the public ownership of the road haulage industry in order to bring about a more fully integrated system of public transport?

Mrs. Castle

Yes, I do. This is why I shall give the same powers of voluntary acquisition to the National Freight Organisation as are at present enjoyed by the Transport Holding Company.

5. Mr. Leslie Hackfield

asked the Minister of Transport whether she will give a general directive to the Transport Holding Company, not to allow their subsidiary companies to conduct anti-nationalisation campaigns against her Department's proposals for conurbation transport authorities.

Mrs. Castle

The Transport Holding Company have assured me that no bus company in which they hold a controlling interest is in any way engaged in such a campaign.

Mr. Huckfield

Will my right hon. Friend take any powers to dissuade the "friendly Midland Red", which is fast becoming one of the sickest jokes in the West Midlands, from continuing the campaign against her nationalisation proposals as envisaged in the passenger transport authorities?

Mrs. Castle

I am afraid that I have no statutory powers in relation to the Midland Red. The T.H.C. has no controlling interest in this subsidiary. Therefore, until my new proposals are put before the House I am afraid I cannot meet the request of my hon. Friend.

Mr. Edward M. Taylor

If a company of this sort is dealing with the public, why should it not have full powers to protect the public interest in the way it thinks best?

Mrs. Castle

I am sorry, but I do not think the public would share the hon. Member's view.

17. Mr. Peter Walker

asked the Minister of Transport why she has advised the Transport Holding Company that no further minority interests will be allowed when acquiring new transport undertakings.

Mrs. Castle

Full ownership of these road haulage undertakings will facilitate integration of all publicly-owned freight services as proposed in the White Paper on Transport Policy.

Mr. Walker

Is the Minister aware that the Transport Holding Company has made it clear in its Annual Report that until the Minister gave it a directive in April, 1966, it had found that leaving a minority interest was to the advantage of continuity of management and giving incentives? Is she against both these things?

Mrs. Castle

I am in favour of the integration of road and rail services through the National Freight Organisation. The hon. Gentleman is not. On that we differ. My policy fits in with my proposals for integration.

Mr. Walker

This is nothing to do with integration. Leaving a minority interest to enable the Transport Holding Company to acquire efficient companies with continuity of management is in the public interest, and the Minister s could act accordingly.

Mrs. Castle

I have always encouraged the Transport Holding Company to acquire voluntarily any undertakings which it considered in its commercial judgment it would be a good thing to acquire. But where there is a minority holding, difficulties obviously arise when it comes to integrating the T.H.C's road haulage service into the N.F.O.