HC Deb 12 July 1967 vol 750 cc799-801
13. Mr. Awdry

asked the Minister of Transport what consultations she has held in connection with her proposals for conurbation transport authorities with the Public Transport Association and other recognised associations representing bus operators.

Mrs. Castle

I have kept all the national passenger transport associations informed of my proposals, and I have offered to discuss with them, if they so wish, any issues they may have to raise.

Mr. Awdry

When the right hon. Lady recently put forward her proposals to local authority and other organisations, did she ask that they be treated con- fidentially? As all these proposals were published by the Birmingham Post last week, would it not be better to have a wide public debate on the issue now so that the views of all organisations and people concerned could be properly considered?

Mrs. Castle

I have asked for them to be kept confidential, for obvious reasons. The House wants me to consult fully all the organisations and individuals concerned before finalising my proposals. It would, therefore, be wrong to have an official release of the discussions at this stage, because it would make a nonsense of the further consultations which I am holding and shall continue to hold. I have told the House that, before the presentation of my Bill, I shall issue a detailed White Paper to Parliament so that all the implications of my proposals are fully understood.

Mr. Webster

What does the Minister regard as adequate consultation, and how will she make sure that it is obtained?

Mrs. Castle

Adequate consultation consists both in detailed discussion by my officials with the people concerned and in my receiving personally any representations which appropriate organisations wish to make to me. As I said in my original reply, I have offered to discuss this matter with the Public Transport Association.

Mr. Leslie Huckfield

What consultations has my right hon. Friend had with the Transport Holding Company, which has a 50 per cent. shareholding in the Midland Red Bus Company?

Mrs. Castle

I have continuing consultations with the T.H.C.

Mr. Heseltine

Does the right hon. Lady agree that, as the purpose of the proposals she is to lay before Parliament is to improve services for the public, it is more appropriate that these proposals as they now exist should be made public for the public to discuss them in advance of proposals to be put to the House?

Mrs. Castle

I intend to make the proposals public in advance of the legislation, but I cannot make public proposals which have not been finalised for the simple reason that consultations are still going on. I treat these consultations seriously. It is no good going into consultation with cut and dried decisions in one's mind. One goes into consultation in order to see whether it is right that certain modifications should be made, and, until consultations are completed, there are no final proposals to put to the public.