§ Q3. Mr. William Hamiltonasked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the talks between Lord Alport and representatives of the illegal régime in Rhodesia.
§ Q4. Mr. Evelyn Kingasked the Prime Minister what report he has had from Lord Alport in the matter of the Rhodesian problem; and if he will make a statement.
§ The Prime MinisterI have at present nothing to add to the Answers I gave to 416 Questions on this subject on the 6th of July.—[Vol. 749, c. 1987.]
§ Mr. HamiltonIs the Prime Minister in a position to assess the worth of the claim that those who hold the real power in Rhodesia at the moment really want genuine negotiations on the basis of a return to constitutional rule? Further, can he explain in rather more detail than he did at the time the remark which he made on 13th June as to the need for a substantial change in the circumstances before the concept of N.I.B.M.A.R. was either abandoned or modified by Her Majesty's Government?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. I am not in a position to make an assessment of the strength of the desire on the part of various interests in Rhodesia for meaningful talks. Ideas were put forward in the House about this. We had varying reports about how far they were willing to engage in meaningful discussions and, of course, that was the purpose of Lord Alport's visit. Until he comes back, it is not possible to answer this question.
§ Mr. KingIs it not a fact that Lord Alport will return at the weekend, and, if it be so, may we hope for a statement from the Government next week?
§ The Prime MinisterI think that his present plans involve a return either at the weekend or early next week. As soon as my right hon. Friend and I have heard from him and considered what he tells us. I hope that we can make a full statement in the House.
§ Mr. HeathDoes the Prime Minister have it in mind to publish a White Paper setting out Lord Alport's conclusions? If a Minister had gone, of course, he would naturally have come to the House to say what his conclusions were. What does the Prime Minister propose in this case?
§ The Prime MinisterWe had better consider this when Lord Alport returns. Certainly it will be the intention of either my right hon. Friend or myself to make a statement in the House about the Government's position based on what we have been able to learn.
§ Mr. WhitakerCan the Prime Minister confirm that the members of the Commonwealth, including not only the black countries but also, in particular, Canada, 417 are unanimous that N.I.B.M.A.R. must be adhered to?
§ The Prime MinisterSo far as the Commonwealth is concerned, its position was clearly and unequivocally stated by every Commonwealth country at the last Commonwealth Conference.
§ Mr. SandysDoes not the tragic racial conflict in Nigeria, which is rapidly going the way of the Congo, emphasise the danger of trying to force the pace of African political advance in Rhodesia?
§ The Prime MinisterI join with the right hon. Gentleman in the feeling which the whole House has about the tragedy that has overcome Nigeria. Of course, the Nigerians' step forward to self-government, which was some years ago, and the very real progress which they made, was taken with the desire of the whole House by the Government of which the right hon. Gentleman was a Member. But I think that it would be dangerous to draw too many analogies between that country and any others. The big tragedy of Rhodesia is that, over all the years, Africans have not been given a steady progress towards greater participation in government and, of course, what steps were made in 1961 have not been adequately honoured and have not been followed up by the régime.
§ Q6. Mr. Rowlandasked the Prime Minister what consultations he had with the President of Zambia prior to the despatch of Lord Alport to Rhodesia; and what steps he is taking to keep him it formed of the results of the visit.
§ The Prime MinisterNo other Governments were consulted over Lord Alport's visit; but steps were taken to inform those Commonwealth Governments chiefly concerned—including Zambia—before the announcement of the visit. Her Majesty's Government will of course continue to keep in close touch with our Commonwealth partners over Rhodesia.
§ Mr. RowlandCan the Prime Minister say why no special consultations and special steps have been taken to keep informed the other Commonwealth country which is most directly concerned with the Rhodesia situation? Can he explain why there now seems to be a real lack of imaginative understanding by the 418 British Government of the strains and problems facing President Kaunda?
§ The Prime MinisterThere is no lack of understanding about the strains and problems facing President Kaunda. We have shown that very many times, not least by the remarkable economic assistance that this country has provided to Zambia, and I very much regret that he did not feel able to come to the Commonwealth Conference last year. So far as consultation is concerned, it has been part of the Zambian case against us that they regard Rhodesia as a purely British problem, and they condemn us for not settling it in the way in which they feel it ought to be settled, namely, by the use of force. This is still the Zambian feeling and the reason why we have had these disagreements with them. President Kaunda was just leaving for China on the day that the announcement was made in the House, and steps were taken to see that the message reached him before he left.
§ Mr. ThorpeIn view of the fact that President Kaunda has alleged that the initiation of the "Tiger" talks and the dispatch of the Alport mission were first heard by him on British broadcasts of news, does the Prime Minister not think that there is some scope for the improvement of communications between the two countries?
§ The Prime MinisterThere was one occasion about which he heard on the radio—I forget at the moment which one it was—and he and I had some communication about that later. In this case, I was particularly anxious that he should hear about it direct through the diplomatic channel. I understood that he had left for the airport, so we went to some lengths to see that the message reached him before he left for China.
§ Mr. Biggs-DavisonAre not the political difficulties of President Kaunda and the economic difficulties of Zambia due to the prolongation of sanctions, upon the duration of which the Prime Minister misled President Kaunda?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir, the difficulties which Zambia face and have faced continuously, feeling as strongly as they do about the treatment of their fellow Africans in Rhodesia, are due to the 419 existence of an illegal régime south of the Zambesi. This is the whole cause of the difficulties. If illegal action had not been taken, and if some hon. Members did not support the continuance of that illegal action, it might have ended a long time ago.