HC Deb 03 July 1967 vol 749 cc1269-72
Lord Balniel

(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement about the safety of the two pilots Captain Taylor and Captain Copplestone at present held in Algiers.

The Minister of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Frederick Mulley)

Yes. The Head of the British Interests Section in Algiers spoke on 1st and 2nd July and again this morning to the Algerian authorities to inquire:

  1. (i) if any charges were being preferred;
  2. (ii) if none, why the British crew and aircraft were still being held.
In the absence of any satisfactory response, the Swiss Government, which protects British interests in Algeria, are being asked to make formal representations on our behalf. We have no reason for anxiety about the safety of the two pilots.

Lord Balniel

Is the Minister aware that we appreciate the prompt and correct action taken by the British Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy? Will the right hon. Gentleman pursue this question of releasing the two pilots very vigorously indeed, because continued detention without any charge is quite unacceptable? If there is any prolonged delay, will he report back again to the House?

Mr. Mulley

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. We will certainly keep the House informed and will press to get these pilots released as soon as possible.

Mr. Paget

But does not the matter go a little further than this? It appears that a British aeroplane has been hijacked for the purpose of kidnapping and judicially murdering a political refugee. Are we not going to do anything about it?

Mr. Mulley

I do not know what my hon. and learned Friend would suggest. We have already asked the Swiss Government to make the strongest representations about this incident. The aircraft in question was on charter to a foreign company at the time of the incident.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

Has the Foreign Office been able to assure Gregory Air Services that what Mr. Gregory described as "Pussyfooting methods" do not accurately describe the action taken by the Foreign Office on this matter? On the question of the political refugee mentioned by the hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget), would not the Minister of State agree that extradition for political purposes would add atrocity to piracy?

Mr. Mulley

The gentleman in question is not a British citizen so we have no means of making direct representations in that sense—[Interruption.] I am not aware of Mr. Gregory's remark about "pussy-footing". We have been in touch with Mr. Gregory and told him all we know, and have got additional information from him. I know of no other way in relation to a foreign country other than to make representations through diplomatic channels.

Mr. Maxwell

Will not my right hon. Friend consider inviting the French Government to make representations on behalf of the British pilots, since it is well known that their influence in Algeria is very strong? I hope that matters of protocol will not prevent my right hon. Friend from asking the French Government to help in the release of these pilots.

Mr. Mulley

First of all, we have to get more knowledge of the facts, and it is only right and proper to go through established diplomatic channels, the Swiss Government, which represent our interests, and do so with great satisfaction to us and conduct in the normal way the formal representations we have asked them to make.

Sir A. V. Harvey

As this British-registered aircraft was flying between two Spanish airfields, will the Minister consult the Spanish authorities and see what they intend to do to help in the matter? Is he aware that it is quite intolerable that the British should be pushed about in the Middle East like this almost daily; and that the House is just not going to accept it?

Mr. Mulley

The pushing around in this case took place off the coast of Spain, and nowhere near the Middle East. The Spanish Government will no doubt be taking an active interest in this matter because I understand that Spanish nationals are also involved.

Mr. J. T. Price

Before we get too morally steamed-up over this issue, let us remember that there is a first-class precedent for what has just happened—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman must ask a question.

Mr. Price

Then I will ask a question. Is not my right hon. Friend aware that the incident of which we now rightly complain has a perfect precedent in the extradition of Adolf Eichmann from South America, and his subsequent trial and execution in the Middle East?

Mr. Mulley

I think that I would be better advised to deal with this particular case on its merits.

Sir J. Langford-Holt

Could the Minister be a little more explicit? Was not this aircraft a British aircraft piloted by British pilots and therefore, were not the passengers, whoever they might be, entitled to the protection of the British Government?

Mr. Mulley

With great respect to the hon. Gentleman, I do not know how one can provide effective air protection for every aircraft. This is only a six-seater aircraft, registered in this country. This is, as I have already said, a British plane registered in this country, owned by Air Hanson Ltd., operated by Gregory Air Services, and, at the time in question, was on charter to a Liechtenstein company named Sedefi. We have no information beyond that, and until we can establish what actually happened the course of action to take is a little difficult to determine.

Several Hon. Members rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Later—

Mr. Molloy

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I would seek your help. Referring to the recent discussion we have had on the British aircraft that has been forced down, one of the pilots is resident in Ealing. I tried to catch your eye, because I have an important question to put to the Minister. I wonder whether you can help me?

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Speaker is not omniscient. [Laughter.] I speak seriously. It would help if hon. Gentlemen who have a constituency or personal interest in a Question like this would let Mr. Speaker know. It is just manifestly impossible for Mr. Speaker to know whose constituency or personal interests will be affected by a Private Notice Question. In the circumstances, the hon. Member may put a question.

Mr. Molloy

I am very grateful to you, Mr. Speaker. Statements have been made in today's newspapers, which I believe will cause some distress to relatives of one of the pilots concerned, that my hon. Friend's Department was very lax in making inquiries. It would appear from what my right hon. Friend has said that his Department was not lax and will he make that transparently clear? Is there not some reponsibility on people like those who run Gregory Air Services to see that their staff have certain safeguards—they ought to have certain safeguards—and that they should not, when something goes wrong, be keen to thrust all the blame on a Government Department?

Mr. Mulley

It is not new, of course, that the Government of the day get blamed for many things—including the weather—from time to time. We will certainly bring my hon. Friend's point to the attention of Gregory Air Services and the fact that from the moment we had information of the incident, which we got from Spanish sources, our man in Algiers went immediately to contact the Algerian authorities. It is certainly due to no lack of effort on his part that we have not got satisfactory answers at the moment.

Sir C. Taylor

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. There are many questions in which many of us are interested which have not been allowed to be asked. Many of us would like to know who kidnapped this British aircraft. We do not know.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman is an experienced Parliamentarian. He knows that he cannot put in the guise of a point of order a supplementary question that he was not called to ask.