University Clinical Teachers (Hansard, 19 January 1967)

§ 11. Mr. Grieve
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is aware that clinical teachers in the universities continue to be dissatisfied with the failure to keep their salaries in line with those of their colleagues in the National Health Service; and whether he will now announce his proposals to deal with this matter.

§ 40. Mr. Boyd-Carpenter
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he now has for bringing the salaries of university clinical staffs into line with comparable remuneration in the National Health Service.

§ Mr. Goronwy Roberts
The increases effective from 1st October last which my right hon. Friend announced on 15th December maintain the relationship between the pay of university clinical teachers and that of National Health Service hospital doctors. Any long-term adjustment of that relationship will be a matter for consideration by the new machinery for determining the salaries of all university academic staff.

§ Mr. Grieve
While I am very grateful to the hon. Member for that reply, may I ask whether it does not mean that with a rise back-dated to 1st October last the clinical teachers are lagging about two years behind the hospital staff in their pay increase? Is this a proper way to treat a service which is indispensable to the education of our future doctors, and should not the—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Questions, however important, must be brief.

§ Mr. Roberts
I agree that there is disparity here, but, as announced on 15th December, the university clinical teachers are to receive an increase which will reflect the award to the hospital doctors and through which they will recover much of the lost ground. On the other hand, we must remember that this is a case of dual source payment, by both universities and the National Health Service, and I would imagine that this would be part of the consideration given by the new machinery for deciding the rate of payments to university staffs generally.

§ Mr. Boyd-Carpenter
But is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the grievance is the time-lag to which my hon. and learned Friend referred, and can he assure the House that the new arrangements will make sure that these very important teachers move in line with the hospital doctors and not two years afterwards?

§ Mr. Roberts
I cannot anticipate the consideration which the body set up to make the new arrangements will give to this, but I would certainly hope that what the right hon. Gentleman has suggested would happen—very much so.

§ 12. Mr. Grieve
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many university clinical teachers have relinquished their appointments and have emigrated in 1965 and 1966, respectively.

§ Mr. Goronwy Roberts
Eighteen teachers of clinical medicine in 1964–65 according to the universities' returns to the U.G.C. Figures for 1965–66 are not yet available.

§ Mr. Grieve
Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that these figures denote the dissatisfaction in this branch of the university service, and will he take steps to ensure that the cause of the dissatisfaction is removed in order to prevent the brain drain from becoming a torrent?

§ Mr. Roberts
I agree that we should all do everything we can to staunch the brain drain, but I would remind the hon. and learned Gentleman and the House that the total number of clinical teachers in 1964–65 was 1,442, so that the loss 627 represented 1.2 per cent. over the academic year. This is a gross figure. We must also remember that some came from abroad to take up appointments here.