HC Deb 17 January 1967 vol 739 cc47-50
Mr. Winnick

On a point of order. May I seek your guidance, Mr. Speaker. I am in some dilemma about Questions placed on the Order Paper and directed to the Prime Minister. Whether a Question is answered depends upon the Minister and not upon you, Sir, but could you give any guidance as to how I can raise the question of the continued American bombing attacks and the new American bombing attacks on Hanoi and other cities and towns in North Vietnam?

Sir G. Nabarro

In Trafalgar Square.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member's Question was too late on the Order Paper to be reached. I cannot solve that problem for him. I have had no request from a Minister that he wished to answer Question No. Q11.

Mr. Winnick

Further to that point of order. I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the urgent need for the British Government to make representations to the United States over the new American bombing attacks on Hanoi and other places in Vietnam. You will know, Mr. Speaker, that I wished to raise this matter before the Recess, but without any success. Since then there has been first-hand confirmation by a correspondent in the New York Times that these bombing attacks are taking place and that civilians in Hanoi are definitely among the casualties. No longer is there any denial that these attacks are causing great civilian casualties in Hanoi and other cities and towns in Vietnam.

I am raising this matter, and I make no apology for doing so, out of a sense of frustration, because I simply do not understand how I can get the matter raised on the Floor of the House. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] I am sure that many people in the country are deeply concerned about this issue. I will not be intimidated by Tory jeers. Many people fail to understand why it is impossible for us to debate this subject in the British House of Commons. It is for this reason—not to delay the House and not to keep repeating what I have said before, but simply out of a desire to make sure that this very important matter is debated on the Floor of the House—that I feel justified in raising it in this way this afternoon.

I know that there has been a new recommendation, which the House has yet to debate, as to how we can raise urgent matters, and it is not my desire to anticipate the discussion and recommendation of the House on that subject. But I believe that we should be in a position today or tomorrow to discuss the new and continued bombing attacks by the United States on Hanoi and other cities and towns in North Vietnam. If it is true that the atrocities which are reported have been committed by the Vietcong, needless to say I am certainly opposed to that sort of atrocity. I am opposed to the horrors on both sides in Vietnam. I want to see an end to the war. I believe that the British Government should be able to make representations to the United States, and, therefore, I am asking that we should be able to discuss this matter.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member for Croydon, South (Mr. Winnick) seeks leave to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the urgent need for the British Government to make representations to the United States over the new American bombing attacks on Hanoi and other places in Vietnam. May I say to him at the outset that everyone in the House shares his concern about the gravity of the situation in Vietnam, and that Mr. Speaker is no different from any other hon. Member in being anxious about what is happening in Vietnam. May I say, too, that the hon. Member need not seek the assurance of the Chair that when an hon. Member raises a matter which he feels should take precedence over the business of the day no one questions his sincerity or his right to do so. This is one of the privileges and rights of a Member of Parliament.

I sympathise with the hon. Member's desire to debate a question on which he feels strongly. Vietnam is a question which the House, when it so decides from time to time, can debate. The Report of the Select Committee on Procedure, which was published yesterday, drew attention to the difficulty of obtaining time for debates under the present Standing Order No. 9, which it is my duty to administer. However strongly Members may feel on this subject of Vietnam or others, the rule which I still have to observe till the House instructs me otherwise is that under Standing Order No. 9 such Motions are out of order where the responsibility of the Government is not directly and immediately involved or where a foreign Government have a more direct responsibility.

Quite apart from my own decision on 29th June last, as recorded in HANSARD in column 1815 and earlier last year, the House will recall that as long ago as June, 1965, an hon. Member sought to raise the subject of Vietnam because of the alleged failure of the Government of the day to take immediate action, through the United Nations, to stop the new acts of war … in … Vietnam in pursuance of the newly-announced decisions of the Government of the United States of America."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 15th June, 1965; Vol. 714, c. 249–50.] On that occasion my predecessor reminded the House that he was bound by precedent to disallow the application for leave to move the Adjournment. I must now give the same decision. I cannot accept the Motion.