§ 1. Mr. Manuelasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the aggregate number of houses under construction and the number of houses where tenders had been approved but not started in the year to October, 1964, and in the year to January,1967.
§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Dr. J. Dickson Mabon)At 31st December, 1966, 50,550 houses were under construction, compared with 47,043 at 30th September, 1964. In the public sector 15,993 had been approved but not started at 31st December, 1966, compared with 8,118 at 30th September, 1964.
§ Mr. ManuelIs my hon. Friend aware that these figures augur well for Scotland's future housing output and completely rout the dismal jeremiahs opposite who continually play down Scotland and Scotland's building workers?
§ Dr. MabonYes. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said last night, these figures taken together—that is, the 66,543 houses in both categories, as against the comparable figure of 55,161 at September, 1964—represent an increase of 20 per cent. in the programme and are a good first step towards the 50,000 target.
§ Mr. BrewisDid not educational building under construction and tenders approved decrease over the period by about the same amount?
§ 2. Mr. Manuelasked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many houses have been completed since October, 1964 until the nearest convenient date; and how many were completed in the same period prior to 1964.
63. Earl of Dalkeithasked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many houses have been completed since October, 1964 until the nearest convenient date; how many were completed in the same period to 1964; and what percentage increase this represents as compared with the same period to 1964 over the equivalent period up to 1962.
§ Dr. Dickson MabonIn the 2¼ years after 1st October, 1964, 82,289 houses were completed; in the 2¼ years before that date the number completed was 67,822; and in the 2¼ years before that again it was 62,142. The increase from 9 per cent., and from the second period to the latest it was 21 per cent.
§ Mr. ManuelThese figures speak for themselves. [HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] Is my hon. Friend aware that I should be the very last person to be complacent about housing conditions in Scotland? I appeal to my hon. Friend, who has the ability, to dedicate himself to the eradication of our bad housing conditions in Scotland, and I am sure that the whole House would wish him every success in solving what has been till now an insoluble problem.
§ Dr. MabonI am obliged to my hon. Friend. In the last six months of 1966 approvals were 30,000 up on the first six months of 1966, which bodes well for the later development programme.
Earl of DalkeithIf the hon. Gentleman had taken these figures to the end of the years in question he would have found that there was a 21 per cent. increase in the Tory years and a 9 per cent. increase in the Socialist years. Therefore, 7,000 or 8,000 families who would otherwise have had houses had the Tory momentum been maintained, are without them.
§ Dr. MabonThe hon. Gentleman's Question is directed to the period 1st April, 1960 to 1st July, 1962. The number of houses built then was 62,142 under the Conservatives. The next period was 1st July, 1962 to 1st October, 1964, when 67,822 houses were built. The last period was the period for which the present Government are responsible.
§ 25. Mr. G. Campbellasked the Secretary of State for Scotland why nearly 4,000 fewer houses were completed in Scotland in 1966 than the 40,000 proposed in March.
§ Dr. Dickson MabonOver 50,000 houses were under construction at the beginning of 1966. Some have taken longer to build than we had reason to expect.
§ Mr. CampbellWhy in March, when all the relevant facts must have been known to the Government, did the Secretary of State allow this statement to be made—a definite statement which did not come true? Will he in future strictly refrain from making misleading promises to Scotland?
Dr. MahonMy right hon. Friend has never sought to enter into competition with the hon. Gentleman and his hon. and right hon. Friends in matters like this, and never would. If the hon. Gentleman is serious in his question, I ought to tell him that, subsequent to our debate last night on this matter, we can only judge, as all Governments can, on past information about average building times.
The nature of the Scottish house building programme is now quite different from past years, and the hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that the low-rise housing is now stretching out to 16 months' completion time. That was the figure of last year, not available to us previously. What is much more interesting and significant is that multistorey blocks take between 21 and 23 months to complete, because of their involved structure. These are essential facts in considering future estimates, of which I hope hon. Gentlemen opposite as well as ourselves, will take account.
§ Mr. MacArthurIs the hon. Gentleman aware that there was no basis whatsoever for the extravagant promises last 1686 March? Is he aware that by the use of his right hon. Friend's name and a photograph of the Prime Minister, the electors of Scotland were led to think that there was some reason for these promises, and many of them voted for Labour on the strength of them? Will he now make some apology to the electors for misleading them so monstrously?
§ Dr. MabonOn the contrary, I think that the electors will give us a thundering vote of confidence at the next General Election, when we will have passed 40,000 and be well on the way to 50,000 houses.
§ Mr. NobleDoes the Minister of State realise that there was also one rather tragic advantage to the Scottish Office in that since October there has been quite a sharp rise in unemployment among people in the building industry, and that often in the past shortage of skilled men has held back house building? Is he aware that he and his Government, tragically, have had this advantage, but have not used it?
§ Dr. MabonThe right hon. Gentleman had better look at his figures again, to see that he is quite wrong here. Many of those who will become unemployed transitionally are moving into construction trades, but with the reflation which is inevitably coming into the economy—[HON. MEMBERS: "When?"]—we might see another adjustment and the difficulties facing the housing programme will return.
§ 31. Mr. Galbraithasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps are being taken to increase the building of more private houses to buy and to rent.
Dr. Dickson MahonI apologise to you, Mr. Speaker, and the House for the length of this Answer, but it is inescapable.
We are continuing our discussions directly with the Scottish builders on how their output of houses for sale can be increased. The difficulties being reviewed include land availability, planning clearance, site servicing and finance. As announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 6th February. the banks are willing and ready to meet all normal and creditworthy demands for bridging finance for builders and purchasers; the building societies will have more money to lend this year, and 1687 the option mortgage proposals at present before the House will help.
For co-operative ownership and for an increase in new houses to rent we are looking to the housing associations, financed with the help of the Housing Corporation.
§ Mr. GalbraithI congratulate the hon. Gentleman on having taken a course in speedy reading. In spite of the explanation, can the Government be really satisfied with a situation in which 100 per cent. fewer private houses are built in Scotland than in England? Do they not realise that one of the reasons, which was not mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, is the unfair rent structure? Will they not do something about that, because nothing would stimulate housing more?
§ Dr. MabonThis system has persisted in Scotland for many years both under the hon. Gentleman and, for that matter, his father. We are most anxious to change it and we are taking steps accordingly to increase, as we did last year, the private sector to its highest figure.
§ Mr. John RobertsonWould my hon. Friend tackle this problem by trying to get a reduction made in the cost of building in Scotland? The most recent survey showed that the average cost of building a house in Scotland was about 25 per cent. higher than it was in England. Would he tackle this problem so that more people in Scotland can be housed?
§ Dr. MabonWe have discussed this matter with the Scottish Housing Advisory Committee. I referred to it in the debate last night. The difference in cost is a matter of great concern to us, but there is a certain degree of improvement in the standards of Scottish housing compared with the standards in England.