§ Q5. Mr. Huntasked the Prime Minister what reply he has sent to the representations on the subject of liner trains recently made to him by the Chairman of the Road Haulage Association.
§ The Prime MinisterAs the Answer is rather long, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
§ Mr. HuntIs the Prime Minister aware that here was an opportunity for him to show some real leadership, rather than the kind of wriggle and waffle that we have had to put up with for the last two years? Is the Prime Minister aware that there are still 200,000 lorries barred from liner train terminals at the whim of one union? How much longer is the Prime Minister going to condone this scandalous situation?
§ The Prime MinisterThe hon. Gentleman has got his timing of wriggle and waffle wrong. The sum of £6 million was authorised in March, 1964, by the right hon. Member for Wallasey (Mr. Marples) but he imposed the condition that no money was to be committed until the N.U.R. had agreed to open terminals. It was this Government who, in April 1965, authorised the Board to go ahead with construction. My right hon. Friend 340 is in close touch with the union. There has been a considerable easement in recent months, and she is pressing the matter further.
§ Mr. Peter WalkerIs the Prime Minister aware that in his statement on 20th July last on the economic crisis he said that one of his measures was his determination to see that the freight liner trains operated at open terminals. Now, six months later, we see the Transport Holding Company spending £500,000 to appease the unions in their closed terminals policy. Is the Prime Minister going to take action instead of just preaching on this subject?
§ The Prime MinisterThe point is that we have been taking action, unlike the Government which the hon. Gentleman supported. I have given the facts on this. Thirty thousand freight liner containers have been carried since November, 1965.
With regard to the question of terminals, there is now agreement, not only with the N.U.R. but with the union representing lorry drivers, on the London-Scottish route. My right hon. Friend had a meeting with the unions concerned earlier this month. She is pressing the matter further. She is making progress. It is a difficult matter, but progress is being made.
§ Mr. SpriggsIs my right hon. Friend aware that railwaymen are operating the liner trains, and that they are a great success?
§ The Prime MinisterYes, Sir, and I think that greater realisation all over the country that the operation of liner trains is a success, and is going to help to provide employment and greater profitability for these services, is beginning to break down the opposition in the railway union concerned to the question of liner trains.
§ Mr. HeathWill the prime Minister address himself to the question of liner trains operating at open terminals? On 20th July he pledged himself to operate that policy. Yesterday, by the complete nationalisation of Tartan Arrow services, he completely succumbed to blackmail from the unions. He cannot say that progress is being made with the unions when yesterday his Minister proved the reverse.
§ The Prime MinisterProgress is being made on the question of open terminals. I have said that it is a difficult thing. These matters are not settled by the right hon. Gentleman's usual suggestion about passing a law about them. It is quite clear that the right hon. Gentleman's concern is more about public acquisition than about whether the open terminals operate or not.
§ Mr. OgdenMay I ask my right hon. Friend whether this programme was really initiated by the right hon. Member for Wallasey (Mr. Marples), and, as he is now redundant, whether we can offer him some useful employment?
§ The Prime MinisterI said that the right hon. Gentleman authorised £6 million in March, 1964. To that extent, of course, it was initiated by him, but, as I said, he imposed a condition which we then withdrew so that the work could proceed.
§ Mr. HeathCan the Prime Minister say how many open terminals are operating as a result of the progress made?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. If the right hon. Gentleman puts down a Question on that, I shall answer it. [Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman obviously thinks that this is all very funny. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Of course, he does. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer the question."] The right hon. Gentleman is more concerned—and we know the kind of briefing that he gets from his hon. Friend on these matters—to attack the Government than to get results.—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I want to hear the question and answer.
§ Mr. HuntIn view of the totally unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
§ Mr. Kenneth LewisOn a point of order.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member can raise his point of order at the end of Question Time.
Following is the Answer:
The Association has been told that the Government fully support the need for the fullest use to be made of the freight liner system; that 342 my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport is making every effort to encourage the wider availability of terminals; that the Government are continuing to press their views on those concerned; and that in my judgment it would be better to allow the work which is already being put in on this subject to continue rather than for me to call a meeting of the kind the Association has suggested.