Concorde Aircraft (Hansard, 19 December 1967)

§ 7. Mr. Boyd-Carpenter
asked the Minister of Technology whether he is yet satisfied that the Concorde aircraft will not require to be subjected to restrictions on its operation over inhabited areas by reason of sonic boom; and if he will make a statement.

§ 48. Mr. Cronin
asked the Minister of Technology what difficulties he envisages with regard to the operation of the Concorde aircraft over inhabited areas on account of the noise it will make.

§ Mr. Stonehouse
No decision has yet been made. I am in consultation with the President of the Board of Trade about the regulation of supersonic transport over this country.

§ Mr. Boyd-Carpenter
In expressing the hope that the Minister will note and follow the spelling in the Question, may I ask him whether, as this issue is vital to the sales of this aircraft, he will use all the resources of the Government to get the point cleared up at the earliest possible moment?

§ Mr. Stonehouse
Yes, indeed. We realise the extreme importance of this matter, but it is too early yet to come to any decision about it.

§ Mr. Rankin
Is not the simple fact that, once it is in operation, the only Concorde that can pass over this country is the one flying from Frankfurt and that all other Concordes coming from Europe must fly over the English Channel?

Mr. Storehouse
I am sorry not to be able to follow my hon. Friend in that remark. The position is not quite as simple as that.

§ Mr. Corfield
In view of the hon. Gentleman's reply, can he tell us what assessment his Department has made of the effects upon the economic operation of this aircraft if a ban were to be imposed upon the making of supersonic booms over land?

Mr. Storehouse
We estimate that the total market would be reduced to about 65 per cent, in the event of a complete ban on overland flight.

§ Mr. Dobson
Does not my hon. Friend agree that it would be a good idea to start international discussions now on banning supersonic flight over land and not to wait until ours is the only aircraft which is affected?

§ Mr. Stonehouse
I do not think that that would be wise. We are, of course, in touch with the countries concerned, particularly France and the United States, and we will, of course, co-ordinate with them in any decision which we make.

§ Mr. Lubbock
Does not the American experience show that the sonic bangs which can be expected from full-sized airliners are much less than those which could be calculated from scaling up the results of tests on smaller aircraft? Therefore, will the Minister not enter into any commitments until the prototype Concordes have flown and the results are known?

§ Mr. Stonehouse
That is a helpful remark. We cannot be certain about the characteristics of the bang that Concorde will create until Concorde is flying. There is a great deal that we can learn, and we are learning, from the intensive tests carried out in the United States.

§ 19. Mr. Dobson
asked the Minister of Technology what have been the results of his recent discussions with the British Aviation Corporation concerning the financing of the production run of Concord aircraft; what proportions of Government and private capital are to be used; and whether he will make a statement.

§ Mr. Benn
I am now working out a scheme in conjunction with the companies and banks concerned, and shall report to the House when negotiations have been completed. Meanwhile, the first steps in Concorde production are not being held up.

§ Mr. Dobson
I thank my right hon. Friend for that Reply. Will he confirm that he will continue to press strongly for B.A.C. to put money into this development, as it seems to many people outside the aircraft industry that its failure to come across with some money for production costing shows a lack of faith by it in this very important project?

§ Mr. Benn
I would rather not comment on this point, but say that these negotiations are confidential and that I shall report as soon as I can.

§ Mr. Hugh Jenkins
As the Concorde will not go into production, would not my right hon. Friend do well, in spite of the objections which we hear from the benches opposite, to recognise that this is a sacred cow which he must sacrifice?

§ Mr. Benn
I would have thought that it was a rather different project from a sacred cow.

§ Sir A. V. Harvey
When Britain is struggling to export her products of this nature in the future, will the right hon. Gentleman deprecate the statement from his hon. Friend that this aircraft will never fly?

§ Mr. Benn
In fairness, the hon. Gentleman knows that a lot of critical remarks have been made on both sides of the House about various projects.

§ Sir A. V. Harvey
Answer the question.

§ Mr. Benn
The Government's view on Concorde has been made absolutely clear by myself and by my hon. Friend. The programme is on schedule, the production work has begun, and there is no doubt on this matter other than that created by hon. Gentlemen opposite.

§ Mr. Hugh Jenkins
On a point of order. May I make the point, as HANSARD will show, that I said that the Concorde would not go into production. I did not say that it would not fly.

§ Mr. Speaker
That is not a point of order.

§ Mr. Corfield
Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in view of the comments which have been made in the past from his side of the House about so-called prestige projects, this country badly needs something to be proud of? As it cannot be proud of the present Government, will he assure us that he will stick to Concorde?

§ Mr. Benn
The hon. Gentleman knows the position on this very well. Most of the doubts which have been raised in recent months have been raised by the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends.— [HON. MEMBERS: "Shame."] That is true, and hon. Gentlemen opposite know it. The programme is on schedule, the production work is going ahead, and, as I have explained today, and whenever a Question has been put down on it, the first plane is due to fly in the spring and the next one in the summer. That is a complete answer to the hon. Gentleman.