§ 51. Mr. Biffenasked the Secretary of State for Defence what proposals he has to renew the export of military equipment to South Africa; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. MasonThere has been no change in the policy on the supply of arms to South Africa as it has been implemented since November, 1964.
§ Mr. BiffenIs the hon. Gentleman not aware that the most prudent regard for British national self-interest requires a resumption of this trade— [HON. MEMBERS: "No; traitor."]— by Britain before it is lost to our competitors.
§ Mr. MasonI am sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but, as I say, we made a statement in November, 1964. The Prime Minister was responsible for the utterance of it in the House and we stand by that agreement. [Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Noise does not help.
§ Mr. DickensCould my hon. Friend give the House a categoric assurance that henceforth this policy will be continued? Is he aware that any departure from this policy will meet with widespread opposition on this side of the House?
§ Mr. MasonI am aware of the views of my hon. Friend. I cannot give categoric assurances of that kind to the House.
§ Sir G. NabarroIs the Minister seriously telling the House that an adverse balance of payments of £260 million in October and November will make no difference to his policy of exporting British manufactured goods to all parts of the world without political discrimination? Why should we not supply our allies— [Interruption.]— our South African allies for their external defence and to enable them to comply with their treaty obligations?
§ Mr. MasonBecause it is not a matter of balance of payments; it is a matter of wider considerations which we have to take into account.
§ Mr. John FraserCan my hon. Friend confirm that frigates and Buccaneer aircraft are not to be supplied to South Africa in the near future?
§ Mr. MasonI cannot give any categorical assurances on that. We have made a statement which we stand by, uttered in this House in November, 1964, bringing ourselves into line with the United Nations Security Council resolutions. I cannot say that that will never ever be broken.
§ Mr. PowellWill the Minister tell the House whether the Government are or are not reconsidering the policy to which he referred?
§ Mr. MasonThis is apparently due to speculation in the newspapers and I am not responsible for that. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."]
§ Mr. OrmeIs my hon. Friend aware that that is the very question to which we desire an answer, and very quickly, because many of us feel that, in spite of the economic difficulties, to resume this type of trade with South Africa would be an abrogation of everything that the Labour Party stands for?
§ Sir A. V. HarveyWhy are the Government being so hypocritical over this issue when British cargo ships are daily calling at Durban and Cape Town and being revictualled with Rhodesian food and meat? Why do they allow that to continue?
§ Mr. MasonI am not aware that British cargo ships are being revictualled with Rhodesian food and meat. I am aware that vessels on the Cape routes are calling at South Africa. Part of this is due to our agreement on the Simons-town base.
§ Mr. HenigIs my hon. Friend aware that his answers have caused widespread anxiety among hon. Members on this side of the House? Would he consult his right hon. Friends with a view to a very prompt statement being made that the Government will continue to stick by their policy of not supplying arms to a régime which discriminates against the majority of its own citizens?
§ Mr. MasonI am sure that my right hon. Friends will take note of the strong utterances made this afternoon.
§ Sir J. EdenWould the Minister have another shot at answering the question put to him by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Powell)? Also, can he tell the House what this policy has cost the country so far?
§ Mr. MasonAs I say, I am not responsible for Press speculation. If hon. Members want to put down Questions on what appear to be rumours and Press comments, that is entirely up to them. But I am not responsible for that.
§ Mr. WinnickIf there is any change of policy—
§ Sir J. EdenOn a point of order. It appears that the Minister forgot to answer the second part of my supplementary question.
§ Mr. SpeakerI cannot compel a Minister to answer a question in the way that an hon. Member wants.
§ Mr. WinnickIs my hon. Friend aware that if there is any change of policy on this matter the only support in the House would come from hon. Members opposite? Could he explain to us how anyone could support sending arms and equipment to the most evil type of racialist dictatorship since Hitler's Germany?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The House was apparently right about Question No. 51.
§ Mr. Biffenrose—
§ Mr. FarrOn a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory and evasive replies of the Minister, I beg to give notice that I will seek to raise this question on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.
§ Mr. SpeakerI imagine that the hon. Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen) wanted to make the same point of order.
§ Mr. Biffenindicated assent.