HC Deb 07 December 1967 vol 755 cc1639-42
3. Mr. Turton

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will state the criteria he is laying down for educational standards in independent boarding schools so as to qualify them for recognition as efficient.

10. Sir J. Eden

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science by what criteria he proposes to judge the adequacy or otherwise of the standards of accommodation provided at independent boarding schools; in what respects he will seek to amend the provisions of Part III of the Education Act, 1944; and if he will make a statement.

13. Mr. J. E. B. Hill

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what are the standards of pupil care, welfare and amenities which registered schools are required to satisfy in order to be recognised as efficient.

14 and 15. Sir G. Nabarro

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science (1) what are the building standards required for a registered independent, fee-paying school to secure recognition;

(2) what are the teaching qualification standards required for a registered independent fee-paying school to secure recognition.

The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Patrick Gordon Walker)

The conditions upon which I recognise a school as efficient are set out in Rules 16, and I am sending copies to the right hon. and hon. Members. I have no plans to amend Part III of the Education Act, 1944.

Mr. Turton

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the interpretation of Rules 16 and the regulations varies very widely in different parts of the country from inspector to inspector? Will he reconsider this in the light of the policy which he announced on 3rd November for doing away with registered independent schools which the inspectors do not regard as recognised as efficient?

Mr. Gordon Walker

I do not quite understand what the right hon. Gentleman means by "doing away with". Does he mean abolishing them?

Mr. Turton

indicated assent.

Mr. Gordon Walker

On the whole I would sooner stick to my declared policy of bringing them all up to an efficient standard. Those failing to reach an efficient standard would be dealt with under the Act.

Sir J. Eden

Does the right hon. Gentleman lay down any particular standards by which to judge the adequacy or otherwise of the buildings and accommodation in boarding schools? Does he appreciate that many of these schools are in built-up areas where the opportunities for expansion are very limited?

Mr. Gordon Walker

Yes, I appreciate that. Standards are laid down in Rules 16 of which I am sending the hon. Gentleman a copy. My inspectors take account of particular circumstances, but it is very important that boarding schools especially should within a reasonable time be brought up to proper standards.

Sir G. Nabarro

I sympathise entirely with the Minister's desire to bring all registered schools up to recognised standards within a measurable period. However, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that in the matter of building standards first, accommodation second, and teaching standards third, there is a wide variety of standards for recognition all over the country and that a great deal of dubiety now exists? Will he not give precise guidance before putting these schools out of business?

Mr. Gordon Walker

I shall shortly be writing to the schools to give an indication of how this is proceeding and I shall send the hon. Gentleman a copy.

Sir E. Boyle

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that his statement in the House on 3rd November made it desirable to be rather more precise than the terms of Rules 16? Is he aware that we on this side of the House fully accept the need to tighten up the criteria, but that justice must be seen to be done to these schools?

Mr. Gordon Walker

Of course justice must be seen to be done and there is a tribunal to make sure that it is seen to be done; I do not have the final decision in these matters. I was very grateful for the strong support which I got from the right hon. Gentleman in our debate. I am not sure whether Rules 16 need tightening up. They were deliberately put in rather general terms and have been in existence for a long time.

Sir G. Nabarro

On a point of order. In view of the Ministerial reply, I beg leave to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.

4. Mr. Turton

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many independent schools with 50 pupils or less are now recognised as efficient.

Mr. Gordon Walker

87, Sir.

Mr. Turton

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the importance of many of these small schools where there is quite a narrow age range and which deal with particular problems, especially the coaching of children who require additional tuitional help?

Mr. Gordon Walker

A fairly large proportion of these small schools, 62 out of the 87, are in the nursery and primary age range. Of course my inspectors will pay attention to any particular success which one of these schools is having. This is one of the things to be weighed and in general there is no desire to stamp out experiment. None the less, these schools, and particularly boarding schools, have to be brought up to a proper standard as quickly as possible.

11. Sir J. Eden

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science in view of the provisions of the Education Act, 1944, what regard he has to the general principle that children should he educated in accordance with the wishes of the parents; and, in view of the rising cost of public education, what encouragement he is giving to the continued development of independent schools.

Mr. Gordon Walker

I have regard to this general principle in the exercise of all my functions under the Education Acts. With respect to the second part of the Question, I refer the hon. Gentleman to the proposals relating to independent schools which I announced in the course of debate on 3rd November.—[Vol. 753, c. 504.]

Sir J. Eden

Does not the right hon. Gentleman wish to see an increase in the number of parents choosing to send their children to be educated in fee-paying schools?

Mr. Gordon Walker

No, Sir.

Mr. Christopher Price

Far from encouraging the independent schools, will my right hon. Friend make sure that many of the tax avoidance devices by which these schools are financed are ended, that all these loopholes are closed and that if such schools exist, they charge fees which represent the real cost of the schools?

Mr. Gordon Walker

I am in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer about this and other matters. Here again we are awaiting a report and it would be unwise to anticipate the receipt of that report and decisions upon it by action of that kind.