Rhodesia

HC Deb 05 December 1967 vol 755 cc1106-9

1. Mr. Judd

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs whether he will make a statement on the latest position in Rhodesia.

The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. George Thomson)

I have as yet nothing to add to the statement which I made on 14th November.

Mr. Judd

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that in view of the cost of the present sanctions policy in the context of our present economic situation, and in view of the rapidly deteriorating situation in Rhodesia as reflected in the pernicious racialist legislation introduced there now, there is urgent need to make the sanctions policy more effective? And is he aware that he will have all possible support in this House for anything he does in that respect?

Mr. Thomson

Her Majesty's Government are with great urgency studying all aspects of the problem in the light of the report I brought back from Salisbury.

Mr. Doughty

In view of the vast cost of sanctions—whether or not the figures given to me by the Prime Minister last week are right, and whatever may be the rights and wrongs of this policy—is it not time, in view of our financial situation, that we stopped imposing on ourselves the vast cost of these sanctions?

Mr. Thomson

We are aware of the sacrifices that the British economy is making as a result of sanctions. I think that, simply on the economic front, one has to bear in mind that if we were to depart from the principles laid down there would be a very considerable economic cost on the other side.

Mr. Paget

Is the Minister aware that reinforcing failure is generally bad generalship, and that if our economic policy is to succeed it involves an increase of at least £200 million in our South African trade, and that we shall certainly not get it while we persist in this foolishness?

Mr. Thomson

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that I recognise the source, in today's Daily Telegraph, of his phrase "reinforcing failure"? Is he further aware that to depart from principles is very often bad politics?

Sir G. Nabarro

Is the Secretary of State not aware that, in their 25th month, sanctions are now totally abortive, most largely because none of our foreign competitors observe them? Why is he continuing to give trade to the Japanese, to the French, to the Italians, and the remainder, as the expense of Britain?

Mr. Thomson

The hon. Gentleman is either ignorant of or is ignoring the operations of the sanctions resolution. There are further Questions on the Order Paper which I do not want to anticipate, but I certainly do not accept the hon. Gentleman's view that sanctions are not having an effect in Rhodesia.

Mr. Faulds

Will not my right hon. Friend agree that, if we are talking of economic considerations, military intervention would be a damned sight cheaper than the prolongation of sanctions?

Mr. Thomson

No, Sir. I do not agree.

9. Dr. Gray

asked the Secretary of Stae for Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has for imposing further restrictions on individual Southern Rhodesians to bring home to them the illegal nature of the Smith régime.

Mr. George Thomson

Means of making the sanctions policy more effective are constantly under review. The Commonwealth Sanctions Committee set up a Working Party on 28th September for this purpose. I cannot forecast at this stage what further measures Her Majesty's Government may take.

Dr. Gray

Is it not strange that the individual citizens of an illegal régime are able to visit this country without let or hindrance? Will not my right hon. Friend consider stopping such travel unless it is made on compassionate grounds?

Mr. Thomson

Travel is one of the matters that is under study by the Working Party of the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee. I do not want to prejudge the decisions that that body may come to on where the balance of advantage lies, nor when the decision is taken could I undertake in advance to tell the House about it, because the effectiveness of sanctions lies in their surprise value.

Mr. Braine

Does the Secretary of State recall telling the House when he came back from Salisbury that he was not seeking to slam the door but was interested in making progress and that both sides had agreed to reflect on the situation before taking further steps? Would he not agree that at a time when, if I may quote the Daily Telegraph— [HON. MEMBERS: "No."]

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman may not quote at Question Time.

Mr. Braine

Would not the Secretary of State agree that at a time when the deadlock is bleeding both countries suggestions such as that made in the Question are most unhelpful and seem calculated to destroy the possibility of a settlement?

Mr. Thomson

No, I really cannot accept that the position is as the hon. Member has stated it. We are at present considering my report as a result of my discussions in Salisbury and in other African capitals. Sanctions are already in operation as a result of U.N. resolutions and the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee had been considering this matter for some months before I ever set off to Africa. One cannot expect these considerations to be held up indefinitely. We have got to keep the two things in step, but I will make a statement to the House on these matters as soon as I can.

Mr. David Steel

Further to the original question, cannot we at least withdraw recognising the validity of Rhodesian passports.

Mr. Thomson

I have answered that question. This is being considered by the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee, and I do not want to prejudge the Committee's decision.

16. Mr. Biffen

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what evidence he has of the increasing effect of sanctions in producing economic and political changes within Rhodesia.

Mr. George Thomson

While sanctions have not yet led to a situation in which there is a return to constitutional rule, I am satisfied that they are having a significant effect on Rhodesia.

Mr.Biffen

That Answer reflects more hope than realism. Is it the right hon. Gentleman's proposition that the political strength of Mr. Ian Smith within Rhodesia has been diminished since the onset of sanctions?

Mr. Thomson

I should not like to make an estimate on that question, and I have been doing my best directly with Mr. Ian Smith in recent weeks to see whether we can come to an honourable and just settlement. The hon. Gentleman asks about the effect of sanctions. There is no doubt about the effect they are having on the Rhodesian economy. I take only one figure at random: Rhodesia's export earnings fell by well over one-third in the first year after the I.D.I.

Mr. Raphael Tuck

Is it not about time this stalemate was ended, not by removing sanctions and thereby condoning what Mr. Ian Smith has done but by firmer and stricter measures against Rhodesia?

Mr. Thomson

There are several stalemates in various parts of the world which I, as an overseas Minister, would very much like to see resolved. But we can only struggle on to try to bring about a settlement in accordance with the principles in which we believe.