HC Deb 19 April 1967 vol 745 cc580-2
18. Mr. Awdry

asked the Minister of Transport whether, before presenting the Transport Bill to Parliament, she will publish a further White Paper setting out in detail her final proposals concerning the constitution of conurbation transport authorities, their precise operating areas, the ownership of the assets, their financial accountability, and all their possible sources of income.

Mrs. Castle

Yes, Sir. I intend to set out in a White Paper my detailed proposals for conurbation transport authorities, including their constitution and financial arrangements. The precise operating areas, however, will probably be determined following the legislation itself.

Mr. Awdry

I am grateful for that reply. Is the right hon. Lady aware that many municipal transport undertakings feel that they have not been consulted nearly enough? Will she undertake that she will make no final decision until she has fully considered all their views?

Mrs. Castle

I have been at pains to consult them in considerable detail and, of course, I shall take their views into account.

Mr. Mapp

Will the areas of these proposed conurbation authorities embrace the whole of the countryside? If they are purely conurbation authorities, what will be the effect of the neutralisation of the rural countryside on their fare structure? Will it not be to lead to a substantial increase in fares?

Mrs. Castle

That is one the considerations which has to be studied area by area. That is why, as I have said, it would not be appropriate to try to define the boundaries in the main legislation. That will be done by Order under the Bill and as a consequence of detailed discussions with the areas concerned.

Mr. Peter Walker

When does the right hon. Lady expect the White Paper to be published?

Mrs. Castle

Certainly before the legislation and in time to give hon. Members a chance to study the details so that they can be fully informed in the discussions which will take place on the Bill itself.

19. Mr. Awdry

asked the Minister of Transport what estimate she has made of the effect on the level of bus fares and the frequency of services of the formation of new conurbation transport authorities.

Mr. Swingler

These are matters for which the authorities themselves will be responsible.

Mr. Awdry

Will the hon. Gentleman consider the possibility that these new authorities with their very large staffs will in fact put up the general level of fares?

Mr. Swingler

No, Sir, because there are staffs now for the running of public transport bus operations. The difference is that by her plan my right hon. Friend is bringing together the staffs of the traffic controllers, the bus operators and those who are concerned with road planning in order that an efficient transport plan can be produced for the first time.

Mr. Manuel

In order to get a better frequency and an easier flow of services in conurbations, will the White Paper indicate any control of the present freight services within the conurbations?

Mr. Swingler

We are now discussing passenger transport authorities.

Mr. Manuel

I know.

Mr. Swingler

My right hon. Friend has put forward a plan for dealing with freight by the establishment of the National Freight Organisation.