HC Deb 24 October 1966 vol 734 cc628-30
16. Mr. John Hall

asked the Minister of Health what is the present shortfall in house officers, junior hospital medical officers, dentists and registrars, other than senior registrars, respectively.

Mr. K. Robinson

There are no fixed establishments or allocations by which to measure shortfall. As I stated in reply to a Question by the hon. Member on 8th August, I recognise the need for more doctors and dentists in these grades, although numbers have risen.

Mr. Hall

Would not the Minister agree that, since nearly half of the present number required in hospitals is represented by doctors from overseas countries, there is a serious short-fall, especially when one cannot hope to keep these overseas doctors here indefinitely? Will the right hon. Gentleman take every step to see that there is a greater staffing of hospitals by English doctors?

Mr. Robinson

Undoubtedly the only long-term solution is to train more British-based doctors. The output of the medical schools is rising, and it is expected to increase steadily in future years.

Mr. Braine

Is it not clear that there is a serious shortfall, since the Minister has written to hospital authorities saying that they might curtail their services to the patient? Is he aware of the acute dissatisfaction among clinical teachers about their present conditions and the adverse effect this will have on the training of more doctors? Is he making any representations about this to the Department of Education and Science?

Mr. Robinson

As the hon. Gentleman is aware, this is a matter for the Department of Education and Science, and I trust, therefore, that he will table a Question to my right hon. Friend. I am glad to have this opportunity of explaining the misrepresentations that have taken place about the question of curtailing services. What was suggested in my letter to hospital authorities was that where, in certain hospitals, young doctors were working wholly excessive hours, it might be as well to consider the rationalisation of services by, perhaps, two hospitals close to one another, not necessarily keeping the casualty department of each open every day and throughout every weekend. That is all that was meant. There was no question of a curtailment of services to the public.

Mr. Braine

Is it not a fact that the situation arose as a result of the welling up of discontent among hospital doctors about their treatment in regard to their pay award? Will not the effect of this rationalisation, as the Minister puts it, or the closing of certain out-patient departments, put an additional burden on already overburdened general practitioners?

Mr. Robinson

No, certainly not. I hope that it will rationalise the use of junior hospital doctors. It may be that this arose out of discontent over a pay settlement, but I do not think I need tell the hon. Gentleman that it also arose out of conditions existing for a very long time, conditions which are now being tackled for the first time.

Miss Pike

Can the Minister give an assurance that there has been no curtailment of service in the past two or three weeks, or, say, in the past two months?

Mr. Robinson

Only in the sense of rationalisation of services which I have mentioned. I made it perfectly clear that such rationalisation might mean a marginal inconvenience to patients in that they had to go a little further to get hospital treatment. This is surely better than their being treated in a nearby hospital by staff who are utterly exhausted by excessive hours.