HC Deb 22 November 1966 vol 736 cc1134-5
29. Mr. Ridsdale

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what has been the increase in numbers of public employees in both Government and local government service since 15th October, 1964.

Mr. Diamond

The increase in the Civil Service, both industrial and non-industrial, excluding the Post Office, between 1st October, 1964, and 1st July, 1966, was 9,000. Including the Post Office, the increase was 26,000. As regards local government, there was a rise of 159,047 in the two years.

Mr. Ridsdale

As these are such serious figures, would the right hon. Gentleman say what the increase in Government spending is to pay for these additional employees?

Mr. Diamond

The simplest way of calculating the figure is to allow about £1,000 per civil servant. But in order to put the figures in perspective, I should say that the proportionate increase among centrally employed civil servants in the last nearly two years is broadly in line with the increase over the first four years of this decade.

Mr. Frank Allaun

While appreciating that if we increase the social services we need more civil servants, is it not wrong that with 440,000 men in the Forces we have 350,000 civil servants looking after them?

Mr. Diamond

My hon. Friend rightly points out that if we increase services we have to increase our manpower to carry them. The House will recollect that, in addition to increased work, there has been a reduction in Civil Service hours of work.

Mr. Hogg

Do not the figures given by the right hon. Gentleman reveal a certain amount of luxuriant growth which might be a suitable subject of pruning?

Mr. Diamond

I am grateful for what the right hon. and learned Gentleman has said in relation to the figure which I gave for increases in the number of local government employees. This is a matter which one should look into very carefully.

Mr. Shinwell

Is there any indication that when we have a sufficient supply of computers we shall have fewer civil servants?

Mr. Diamond

I think that that is a rather different question.