HC Deb 16 November 1966 vol 736 cc414-6
9. Mr. Marten

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the future of the Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft and the swing-wing aircraft projects.

80. Mr. Iremonger

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the Anglo-French project for a military swing-wing aircraft in the 1970s.

Mr. Healey

I would refer to the reply I gave on 9th November to the hon. Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall).—[Vol. 735, col. 289.]

Mr. Marten

If the French are now having reservations about going on with variable geometry—which I understand is the case—does not this point to one of the great difficulties in Anglo-European co-operation in relying on that for the defence of this country? Should not we have our own national aircraft industry?

Mr. Healey

This matter has been debated at length in the House on many occasions, and the majority of Members agree that the chances of survival of an effective airframe and aero-engine industry on this side of the Atlantic are bound to depend, in large part, on developing collaboration between the major aircraft industries here and in Western Europe. Of course difficulties arise in collaborative projects—even difficulties which do not arise in normal projects—but I am still hopeful that the French Government will see their way to continue with the proposed Anglo-French variable geometry aircraft, and I am determined that we shall do everything possible on our side to make a favourable decision likely.

Mr. Iremonger

Would it not be better for the right hon. Gentleman to recognise that he has allowed this country to be put over a barrel in this matter, and that this difficulty stems from the Government's original disastrous miscalculation about the aircraft industry and the rôle of British aircraft in Western defence, and that we now have the worst of all possible worlds?

Mr. Healey

That is an astonishing statement, coming from a member of a party which first initiated Anglo-French co-operation in aircraft production, and was responsible for the initial agreements on the Concord and on E.L.D.O.

Mr. Rankin

Can my right hon. Friend say how far the question of finance is limiting the French attitude to this development?

Mr. Healey

It is not for me to say precisely what are the problems of the French Government in this respect, but M. Messmer, with me, signed the communiqué which was published after our last meeting, which made it clear that the only obstacle to progress was certain budgetary difficulties on the French side. I hope that these can be overcome, perhaps with help from us.

Mr. R. Carr

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is one thing to wish to promote Anglo-French co-opera- tion and quite another to put this country in the position where, in the Defence White Paper, the Minister says that the guarantee of our long-term programme depends on the production of an aircraft about which we now seem to have no assurance whatsoever?

Mr. Healey

That is a surprising statement, although perhaps it is not quite so surprising in view of the particular responsibility which the hon. Member holds on the Opposition Front Bench. The fact is that the future of our aircraft industry depends on co-operation with France. This was recognised by the last Government when it made the Concord agreement. The difference between the Conservative Government and the Labour Government in this respect is that we have taken great care to protect our mutual interest on the financial side. If hon. Members opposite had taken similar care with the Concord the situation might now be very much more favourable.